Has anyone seen on the news...

Calbeck · Post by **Calbeck** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:40 am

That's just the thing, though. What court would have found in FAVOR of Scientology? They had to have lost every case, and just appealed, but there IS a limit to the appeals process, and the IRS has never before had a problem with expense and time spent so long as they're sure they'll win. All the foolishness would inevitably end once the Supreme Court made a decision one way or the other.

EDIT: YouTube has a LOT of people hosting the same Scientology episode. Apparently they're getting whacked as complaints are lodged by Scientologists, but doing a search on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com) using "trapped in the closet" as the keyphrase should do the trick.

Worst comes to worst, I downloaded a Flash version that's under 10M. The video is only slightly bigger than a postage stamp, but I can email it to anyone who wants a copy (calbeck at lycos dot com).

Sciguy · Post by **Sciguy** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:31 pm

Ask not, "Why did the IRS back off."

You must ask, "What idiots fell into Scientology," to answer the other question.

It's the biggest joke that the idiots inside said "Religon" are idiots with fame and power.

StrangeWulf13 · Post by **StrangeWulf13** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:15 pm

Calbeck, I've no idea what I'm even supposed to be looking for! The only results I get from your suggested search is a bunch of clips from this guy's music video.

*sigh* Might as well send me the video via email. I don't have the will to slog through mountains of videos just to find that one...

MikeVanPelt · Post by **MikeVanPelt** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:12 pm

Calbeck wrote:That's just the thing, though. What court would have found in FAVOR of Scientology? They had to have lost every case, and just appealed, but there IS a limit to the appeals process, and the IRS has never before had a problem with expense and time spent so long as they're sure they'll win. All the foolishness would inevitably end once the Supreme Court made a decision one way or the other.

It's worse than that.

It did go to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court did make its decision -- the same one every other court did, that Scientology fees for auditing are fees for services, which are not deductable, ever.

Then in 1993, a couple of Scientology operatives stormed into the office of the head of the IRS, and when they came out -- the IRS just started granting the deduction in direct violation of the Supreme Court ruling, a tax break that no other religion gets.

No one who knows why is talking.

(See the Wall Street Journal article on this from a few years back; it's probably posted on one of the sites like xenu.net.)

To make it stop would require going through the whole process again, finding someone to take it to court and fight it all the way back up to the Supreme Court. And, in the words of one FBI official "no one wants to lift the tail of the skunk again."

With Scientology, no matter how bad you think it is, it's always worse than you think.

Kerry Skydancer · Post by **Kerry Skydancer** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:22 pm

nick012000 wrote:
Kerry Skydancer wrote:.... Hitler was a Christian socialist, but primarily a megalomaniac sociopath....
No, he wasn't. He was a pagan National Socialist (Nazi), who used the church as a tool to manipulate the masses.

Nazism used pagan elements, but Hitler's private conversations and diaries refer to 'doing the Lord's work' as often as his public speeches. Some of his -followers- were occultists and pagans, but it doesn't really look like he was one himself. Sorry... If I've got to accept Stalin as an atheist (personally, I count Communism as a pseudoreligion in some ways), you're stuck with Adolf.

Calbeck · Post by **Calbeck** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:26 pm

Okay, see, I missed that. Dammit, here I thought I was up to speed on these people...Strangewulf, file enroute.

StrangeWulf13 · Post by **StrangeWulf13** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:58 pm

Yay! ^_^

UncleMonty · Post by **UncleMonty** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:23 pm

I think we can all agree that some folks who honestly and sincerely believe themselves to be devout members of (name any religious / political / social group affiliation) ...aren't.

StrangeWulf13 · Post by **StrangeWulf13** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:44 pm

Like Hitler?

Someone keeps bringing up the "fact" that he was a Christian.

I'm gonna have to cry bullsh*t on this, on account that few true Christians stir their nation into a genocidal frenzy. Or try to conquer half the world. And no, the Crusades don't count; we got attacked first.

Anyway... Calbeck, I don't know where you're sending the file, but I haven't seen anything in my inbox that looks like email from you. Not yet, anyway. I'll check it today and we'll see.

I'm still curious as to what those people are up to in that "religion" that they felt they had to get tax exemptions. Something fishy going on...

LoneWolf23k · Post by **LoneWolf23k** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 4:29 pm

Hitler, if anything, was someone who worshipped his own ideology over religion.. His beliefs were a mishmash of religion, pagan superstititions and myths, and a savage hatred of anything that wasn't pure-blooded german, and jews in perticular.

As for Stalin and the communists, I was under the impression that the basic Socialist opinion on religion of any kind was "it's the opium of the people and must be removed! Instead, you devote your worship to the State and the Communist Party!"

Jwrebholz · Post by **Jwrebholz** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:13 pm

Calbeck wrote:
Sciguy wrote:I'm sorry. Scientology had to be the funniest religon out there.
I still don't get how Scientology can legally claim to be a religion. It didn't START as one. In fact, it was first marketed in science-fiction pulp magazines as a scientific means of improving mental health. The "church" label and such like were introduced right after the IRS began investigating Scientology for tax evasion.

I think you answered your own question.

Squeaky Bunny · Post by **Squeaky Bunny** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:26 pm

MikeVanPelt wrote:
Calbeck wrote:That's just the thing, though. What court would have found in FAVOR of Scientology? They had to have lost every case, and just appealed, but there IS a limit to the appeals process, and the IRS has never before had a problem with expense and time spent so long as they're sure they'll win. All the foolishness would inevitably end once the Supreme Court made a decision one way or the other.
It's worse than that.

It did go to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court did make its decision -- the same one every other court did, that Scientology fees for auditing are fees for services, which are not deductable, ever.

Then in 1993, a couple of Scientology operatives stormed into the office of the head of the IRS, and when they came out -- the IRS just started granting the deduction in direct violation of the Supreme Court ruling, a tax break that no other religion gets.

No one who knows why is talking.

(See the Wall Street Journal article on this from a few years back; it's probably posted on one of the sites like xenu.net.)

To make it stop would require going through the whole process again, finding someone to take it to court and fight it all the way back up to the Supreme Court. And, in the words of one FBI official "no one wants to lift the tail of the skunk again."

With Scientology, no matter how bad you think it is, it's always worse than you think.

Hmmm. 1993. Scientology has many "Hollywood" minions, Slick Willie was in office, the democratic party wants to reward/protect/gain favor with said "Hollywood" types. The IRS is told "hands off" the Scientologists.

Maybe it does add up?

MikeVanPelt · Post by **MikeVanPelt** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 11:05 pm

Squeaky Bunny wrote: Hmmm. 1993. Scientology has many "Hollywood" minions, Slick Willie was in office, the democratic party wants to reward/protect/gain favor with said "Hollywood" types. The IRS is told "hands off" the Scientologists.

Maybe it does add up?

Could be...

Way back when, I posted a list of reasons to suspect that Billy Boy was a closet clam.

(Clam==slang for scientologist, since <a href="http://www.subgenius.com/bigfist/ears/s ... on.html">L. Ron Ron</a> claimed that humans were descended from clams.)

Calbeck · Post by **Calbeck** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 11:23 pm

StrangeWulf13 wrote:Anyway... Calbeck, I don't know where you're sending the file, but I haven't seen anything in my inbox that looks like email from you. Not yet, anyway. I'll check it today and we'll see.

Well, I got your email addy from your MSN reference which appears under your posts, and it shows you as a Hotmail customer. You never sent me your actual email addy, and I haven't received any email from you at the addy I listed (calbeck at lycos dot com).

Wanderwolf · Post by **Wanderwolf** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 5:51 pm

JakeWasHere wrote:I like that line in the last South Park (the one where they finally killed Chef off) that was pretty obviously aimed at Isaac: "We shouldn't be mad at Chef for leaving us like he did; we we should be mad at that fruity little club for scrambling his brains."

Now, now, that wasn't Isaac Hayes that did that, and I'm not babbling about the aliens that are supposed to live in his body, either. Apparently it was his Scientology "guide" (read: watchdog and life-controller) that quit the show for him:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,188463,00.html

Seems the voice of "Chef" had a stroke January 17th, and has been receiving home therapy since then. People who know him were surprised, since Hayes hadn't said anything about leaving the show prior to his stroke.

Yours with a weather eye to Hayes' eventual recovery,

The anger-anticipating,

Wanderer

Rangers · Post by **Rangers** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:12 pm

LoneWolf23k wrote:Hitler, if anything, was someone who worshipped his own ideology over religion.. His beliefs were a mishmash of religion, pagan superstititions and myths, and a savage hatred of anything that wasn't pure-blooded german, and jews in perticular.

Indeed. It's really hard to consider someone a follower of the Jewish Messiah who tried so hard to tout himself as the German one. He demanded worship of himself, and a few are still willing to comply, more's the pity.

StrangeWulf13 · Post by **StrangeWulf13** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:25 pm

...I suddenly get the feeling I know exactly what I should've looked for at Youtube.

And I skipped over it.

Calbeck, if that video turns out to be a clip from South Park, I'm gonna feel really stupid...

Wanderwolf · Post by **Wanderwolf** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:16 pm

Kerry Skydancer wrote:
nick012000 wrote:
Kerry Skydancer wrote:.... Hitler was a Christian socialist, but primarily a megalomaniac sociopath....
No, he wasn't. He was a pagan National Socialist (Nazi), who used the church as a tool to manipulate the masses.
Nazism used pagan elements, but Hitler's private conversations and diaries refer to 'doing the Lord's work' as often as his public speeches. Some of his -followers- were occultists and pagans, but it doesn't really look like he was one himself. Sorry... If I've got to accept Stalin as an atheist (personally, I count Communism as a pseudoreligion in some ways), you're stuck with Adolf.

While it cannot be denied that Hitler himself saw his work and actions as "Christian":

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." -- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

It cannot be overlooked that he constantly refers to goddesses as well:

"... the Goddess of Suffering took me in her arms..."

"... the hand of the goddess of eternal justice and inexorable retribution..."

Likewise, he saw Jewish actions as Marxist... also noted in Mein Kampf... despite the fact that Marxism was what was driving Jews out of Russia and into Germany. In addition, in Chapter 3, he decries both Catholicism and Protestantism as "useless" to German interests. He decried the Christian Socialist Party for losing the "value" of their "anti-Semitic line".

Bluntly, Adolf Hitler was neither Christian nor pagan, agnostic nor atheist. He was an opportunistic madman who would claim any god to his service, or none, as he saw fit. The clearest test of his personal loyalties is to see the schoolbooks he authorized for Nazi Germany. In them, there is no appeal to God or goddess; there is little appeal to church or state. The ideal of Motherhood receives adoration to an extent. But the greatest lauds, the finest honors, are reserved for Adolf Hitler, Fuhrer of the Reich.

'Nuff said.

Yours truly,

The historical,

Wanderer

Timmy Ramone · Post by **Timmy Ramone** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:09 pm

Wanderer:
Good points on Uncle Adolf. Without seeing the full context of your quotes, however, one might conclude that he was using "goddess" in an allegorical sense.

Re: Scientology.
The "secret history" of Scientology, or so it was revealed to me, was that a certain prominent SF author (Larry Niven, according to some accounts) was in a hot tub with L. Ron Hubbard at a World SF Con back in the 1960s. They got into a philosophical debate that ended with Hubbard wagering that he could create his own religion and get people to follow it. And he proceeded to do just that, with results that surpassed even his expectations.

Also, have you noticed how Hubbard became a very prolific writer after he died? I think most of his novels were published postumously.

Madmoonie · Post by **Madmoonie** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:36 pm

jwrebholz wrote:I think you answered your own question.

Indeed. More or less, it was a "religion" that allowed its members deep tax deductions.