What would Nip and Tuck think...

[Scathach]

[quote="t.s.a.o"]Um, there shouldnt be any archaeological evidence of that whatsoever, since the Cannanites and their culture were wiped from existence. I'm also sure they deserved it, you just haven't been reading the Redwall series enough.
Read Lee Strobels "The Case For Faith". I'm sure your financially capapble of that.[/quote]

The Case for Faith has got to be the most illogical nonsense book ever written, and has been throughly debunked.

[Tbolt]

stop please....your scaring me.... I heard someone quoting from the OT, notorious for the book of Job,

and tons of pre-salvation judgements of God that make Christians loook like they have Stolkholm Syndrome or are all

sadists or worse (whatever insults liberals can come up with)....well Ester and Ruth are cool, maybe the Psalms and

Proverbs....but for debating with anti-believers, just stick to the NT please....it will make me feel more comfy here....

t.s.a.o, don't be afraid, read!

Fear lies in ignorance, don't take what Scathatch, myself, or anyone else has to say about the bible, we have our own motivations and agendas! Read it for youself, draw your own conclusions!

I don't recommend reading it from cover to cover Genesis - Revelation. I've been on this journey five times and Leviticus and Numbers make pretty dry reading. What has been suggested to me, and I think this might be a more wise approach, is to start with the Gospel of John. Read one chapter per day if you don't have a lot of time. From there you can proceed to the other gospels, or go to acts to learn about the early church, or to Romans to learn the nuts and bolts of Christian living.

Don't neglect the Old Testament it is there for a reason, if some parts make you feel uncomfortable, good. Sin is a bad thing and will lead us to a very bad place, but that is why we have Jesus.

Psalms, Proverbs, Wisdom, and Sirach are all excellent sources of wisdom.

Ecclesiastes concerns the apparent meaninglessness of one's existence.

The Song of Songs (Solomon) deals with love within marriage, physical and spiritual.

The prophets show us judgement and the limitations of God's patience. But they also show us God's mercy and willingness to forgive.

Again, don't take my word for it please, I implore you! read it for yoursef! And this goes to anyone else as well!

For easier reading I might recommend the NIV (New International Version) translation, the language is modern, and text reads almost like a novel.

The NAB (New AmericanBible) will give you the scripture notes from the Roman Catholic perspective and is the translation used to celebrate Catholic mass.

The HCSB (Holman Christian Standard Bible) is an excellent compromise between a "word for word" translation method (which can lead to awkward sentence structure) and a "thought for thought" translation(easy to read, but can suffer sometimes due to language drift).

If you have any questions please feel free to PM me:

Proverbs 27:17 As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. (NIV)

I'm still learning myself =^^=

[Kerry Skydancer]

Hah. I do recommend reading it front to back. You can skim the dry stuff as you go, but dancing around and concentrating on the popular parts is not the way to get the full flavor.

Scathach is right, though. Stroebel's arguments are the one of the most laughable attempts at logic it has ever been my misfortune to slog through. A lot of the biblical scholars who are believers think he's a complete embarrassment to Christianity.

Stuff that boils down to, "Oooo, there's an empty hole in Palestine! It must be the empty tomb!"or "We can't locate a specific body buried in an unmarked grave two millenia ago! The body -must- have got up and walked out!" or "Political figures who were attempting not to encourage the latest trouble-making cult by paying attention to it didn't leave detailed debunking accounts! They must've known it was -true-!" simply don't impress people who aren't already looking for an excuse to believe; or even believers capable of recognizing logical fallacies when they see them.

[Calbeck]

Mainly this is because New Yorkers do not strap bombs to their chests and run onto buses loaded with the "target minority" for the express purpose of killing as many as possible.

No, they tend to use guns instead of bombs.

You're still wrong: no such incidents have occurred in New York, whether using guns OR bombs. Nor have any New Yorkers formed any groups to establish training camps for the indoctrination and promotion of such acts. You're comparing the occasional individual nut case acting alone (and usually on the spur of the moment) to an established long-lasting organization of thousands of lunatics who spend years carefully plotting their actions with the intent of committing genocide.

I'll bet the next people you're going to become an apologist for are the National Socialists, hm? Try "New Yorkers use guns instead of gas chambers" on for size, see how it fits your nonexistent logic.

And as for your 'change the geopolitical world blah blah blah', how is that different than the folks casually tossing around the words 'glass parking lot'?

Sorry, your logic blew another circuit. I referred to the terrorists' EXCUSE for their actions. In our case, we need no excuse, as we have not turned anyplace into a glass parking lot. Of course, should the terrorists succeed in wiping out a major US city with a smuggled nuke, our preference to refrain from such abhorrent acts might change.

Real world incident of my personal experience - My best friend is from India. She is 4'9" tall. Shortly after 9-11 and while she was six months pregnant, she was thrown down a flight of stairs by a white man screaming at her and calling her things such as 'raghead'.

And which terrorist group did this man belong to? Was he receiving money or other support from a government entity (foreign or domestic) aimed specifically at furthering his racist ideals?

The man that attacked my friend is not isolated.

Oh, so you ARE saying he was part of an organized group acting with the premeditated intent of terrorizing persons of (apparent) Middle Eastern persuasion. On what grounds do you base this claim?

Now, if the situation had been reversed, and a middle-eastern man attacked a white woman in such a manner, would the middle-eastern man have been called a terrorist?

Nope. So your point is?

Actually, all of these groups put together number fewer followers than Al Qaeda alone. A list of Islamic international terrorist groups is three times as long as the one you present.

Your source for this information?

Every law enforcement agency in the nation has this data on file, including the ATF and FBI. Not to mention the fact that I spent two years during the '90s, at the peak of the "Militia Scare", assisting the ADL in tracking and investigating US militias. This included electronic infiltration. It's amazing how many unit leaders will give you all the info you want if they think you're "one of them".

The entire point of the ATF raid was to seize a single unregistered weapon that, in fact, no one at the ATF has ever confirmed the Davidians actually possessed (a .50 caliber Browning Automatic).

Not only did they possess it, they used it.

Sorry, kid, you fail at basic research. Over a dozen law enforcement agencies have been over that site with fine-toothed combs, and not one has found a .50 caliber Browning Automatic, any spent brass resulting from firing it, or any fired rounds. There is, in fact, no evidence whatsoever that the Davidians ever possessed such a weapon.

For the rest, cite your sources.

ATF, FBI, Congressional hearings, and most of the major newspapers in the United States. You, on the other hand, appear to have satisfied yourself with first-day reports on any given incident with any given group.

For example, from Reason Magazine, which did an article on the "Viper Militia":

"As it turned out, there was no terrorist plot. Furthermore, the "vast arsenal" kept shrinking. Seventy-seven machine guns dwindled to four, and the unstable lead azide was transformed into lead styphnate, then lead picrate, a less dangerous compound. The amount of ammonium nitrate was reduced to 500 pounds, plus 14 or 15 gallons of nitromethane, all of which is legal to possess. But we'll have to take the BATF's word for all of this, because agents rushed the seized explosives (alleged explosives?) to the desert and blew them up. Most of the guns turned out to be legal World War I and World War II surplus rifles--not surprising, since a couple of the men arrested were collectors and one had a federal firearms license.

Oh, and by the way, there was no militia. The name "Viper Militia" first surfaced in a BATF affidavit and was dutifully transmitted in press reports. But the group called itself Team Viper or the Viper Team, not the Viper Militia. The government has not alleged that the Viper Team was affiliated with any militia group...Nor are the Vipers mentioned in two recent books on the dangers of the militia movement... This particular militia threat seems to have been conjured up mainly by the BATF."

http://reason.com/9612/fe.bock.shtml

Took me all of thirty seconds to find this link. I can only imagine how arduous your research must have been.

[The JAM]

[...unWARP!!!]

Good evening.


Try "Operation: Jesus", by Og Mandino, or I think that's how the title reads in English.

If you're starting out in the Christian walk, yes, you should start at John and through the New Testament, then go back to Genesis and read through from there.

No, Scat, you won't find a 100% completely good person. Why? Because we're still living with a corrupted body. Salvation includes: renewal of the spirit (done so instantly the moment we accept Yeshua's sacrifice), renewal of the mind (an ongoing process as we read the Bible and adjust our behaviour to what God wants), and the renewal of the body (will happen instantaneously when Yeshua returns, if we should die before that, our body will resurrect the moment He returns, renewed, glorified and immortal)

I don't know how many times I myself have had to adjust my behaviour and prayer after understanding a passage of the Bible. Even our church has had embarrasing moments thinking we were doing things right, and suddenly we come accross the Bible and realise we were doing things wrong (much like Job), but once we know, we make sure to correct our ways.


¡Zacatepóngolas!

Until next time, remember:

I

AM

THE

J.A.M. (a.k.a. Numbuh i: "Just because I'm imaginary doesn't mean I don't exist")

Good evening.

[WARP!!!]

[StrangeWulf13]

Y'all can "debate" Miss Scathach all you want. Me? I've seen enough.

Girl, you ain't just drinking the magic koolaid, you're soaking your brain in it!

I won't waste anymore time on you. I've got better things to do with my time, like bag groceries for stupid idiots who couldn't find a cart corral if they parked right next to it.

Good day.