Frightening news

LoneWolf23k · Post by **LoneWolf23k** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 3:07 pm

While I've read a bit of references that state that Islam is supposed to be tolerant of "People of the Book" (Christians and Jews), I fail to see any actual evidence of this tolerance in the real world.

Also, supposedly according to my sources, Mohammed introduced improvements in the place of women in society, giving wives better inheritance rights, and attacking female invanticide, bride-stealing and the traditional treatment of women as property. ...if this is the case, then it's the one part of the Mohammed's teachings that is not being followed faithfully.

So... Basically, there's one take on Islam, which is the Ideal, and another, which is the reality...

Werekitty · Post by **Werekitty** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:32 pm

The corrpution of the original faith has to do with, of course, power. The people in power wanted more control over their citizens, ergo they corrupted the religion in order to get it.

Anybody who ever takes a World Religions class, or looks up Islam in a non biased source, not that anybody here would ever say that there is such a thing, would find that in its original form the Muslims were supposed to respect other faiths. Originally Muslims were suposed to go forth and teach their faith to others, so they could make an intelligent choice.

The lust for power does funny things to the people in charge. They tend to use any tool they can in order to brainwash their subjects into doing what they wish. The religion they call Islam, today, is nothing more than a corrupted husk of the orginal faith. More of a cult than a true religion.

Cults foster paranoia, opress women and make them slaves, say that all other ways should be destroyed, gather weapons with which to destroy their enemies, then proceed to use any means nessiccary to do so.

Sound familier?

Kerry Skydancer · Post by **Kerry Skydancer** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:57 pm

Either they're ignoring those parts, it's just a Big Lie for the West, or ... it must have been -really- bad before.

IronFox · Post by **IronFox** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:08 pm

Kerry Skydancer wrote:Either they're ignoring those parts, it's just a Big Lie for the West, or ... it must have been -really- bad before.

More like a case of ignoring those parts and adhering to the letter of the faith if not the spirit.

LoneWolf23k · Post by **LoneWolf23k** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:27 pm

IronFox wrote:
Kerry Skydancer wrote:Either they're ignoring those parts, it's just a Big Lie for the West, or ... it must have been -really- bad before.
More like a case of ignoring those parts and adhering to the letter of the faith if not the spirit.

So that's even worst.. It's Hypocrisy...

StrangeWulf13 · Post by **StrangeWulf13** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:41 pm

Y'know, people say that the muslims doing these terrible things are "extremists using religion as an excuse to be evil".

You'll pardon me if I look at Denmark and start to wonder if that's true, or if the religion is the actual cause of that evil...

Calbeck · Post by **Calbeck** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:08 am

Well, recently I did a sketch of Muhammed --- not a nasty one, just an old-lookin' guy with beard and turban, looking a bit wise, a bit tired.

The caption reads, "O Wise and Honored Muhammed, Please Save us from your FOLLOWERS".

Not two days later, I have two requests from Arabic/Islamic folks asking me to take the sketch down off DeviantArt because they say it's offensive.

I said to them that if Islam is such a fragile thing that its followers worry that people might start worshipping the image of a POLITICAL CARTOON --- "idolatry" being the "reasonable" reason for the outbreaks of violence --- then it is not a religion sturdy enough to be worthy of God.

SolidusRaccoon · Post by **SolidusRaccoon** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:27 am

Sad, but true. And I just love how the MSM reduses to print the carttons out of respect for Islam, I am sure they would show they same respect to Christians and Jews..... Yeah, try saying that with a straight face.

Sciguy · Post by **Sciguy** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:15 pm

There's been extreamists on all sides making every religion look back. Today it's every Islamic Extreamist group. In the Rennasance it was the Spanish inquisition. Further back it was both Christianasty and Islam in the Crusades with major violations to their own religons on both sides.

Every religon has it's extramists and profiteers.

Calbeck · Post by **Calbeck** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:45 am

Ah, yet another fan of Filibuster! J.J.'s a great guy, and a centrist-conservative Canadian to boot. Apparently the cartoon you just posted there has become his all-time most popular...

IronFox · Post by **IronFox** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:09 am

Calbeck wrote:Ah, yet another fan of Filibuster! J.J.'s a great guy, and a centrist-conservative Canadian to boot. Apparently the cartoon you just posted there has become his all-time most popular...

It's fairly easy to see why. It gets the point across and it's funny enough to amuse fairly objective readers

Chaser617 · Post by **Chaser617** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:59 am

"When The Lord orders you to sacrafice a cow, You must Slaughter a cow, not a young cow, or an old cow, just a cow, Pleasing to the Lord."

Paraphrase of the 2nd Sura, Ilsamic Khoran.

This passage is the justification used by pretty much all Islamics for their actions. They are simply 'slaughtering a cow' pleasing to Allah in their acts of violence.

Now, this is not an EXACT passage, I do not have a copy of the Khoran with me at the moment, but still. This passage can be taken many ways, but, the one way in which it is interprited 99.9% time? "Kill the infidel."

JakeWasHere · Post by **JakeWasHere** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:18 am

Chaser617 wrote:"When The Lord orders you to sacrafice a cow, You must Slaughter a cow, not a young cow, or an old cow, just a cow, Pleasing to the Lord."

Paraphrase of the 2nd Sura, Ilsamic Khoran.

I think I understand the reasoning behind their misinterpretation of it.

Boil that phrase down and it comes out to "When Allah tells you to do it, you must do it, and he will be pleased."

What it is doesn't matter. If the imams tell you that God said you have to sacrifice a cow, sacrifice a cow. If the imams tell you that He is displeased with your son and you have to disown him, then disown him - or kill him just to be on the safe side. If they tell you He said to blow away a couple dozen Jews at a bus stop, you better strap on that dynamite, buddy.

Sun tzu · Post by **Sun tzu** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:24 am

LoneWolf23k wrote:While I've read a bit of references that state that Islam is supposed to be tolerant of "People of the Book" (Christians and Jews), I fail to see any actual evidence of this tolerance in the real world.

Also, supposedly according to my sources, Mohammed introduced improvements in the place of women in society, giving wives better inheritance rights, and attacking female invanticide, bride-stealing and the traditional treatment of women as property. ...if this is the case, then it's the one part of the Mohammed's teachings that is not being followed faithfully.

So... Basically, there's one take on Islam, which is the Ideal, and another, which is the reality...

I recall a History lesson from junior high...we had gotten to the part about early Islam, and how under its laws, women got a 1/3 of inheritance. Some of the students were offended at the unfairness of it, and our teacher basically replied, "It sounds bad by our modern standards, but back then, by default, they got 0% of inheritance".

Chaser617 · Post by **Chaser617** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:10 pm

The sad thing is if you read the Khoran, Mohammoud actually declares suicide a mortal sin (not in so many words but, its there) which, any good catholic and/or anglican will tell you, is the only sin you cannot go to confession for, there your riding the one way handbasket.

Granted, I have also yet to find the part about getting the women and children you kill to serve you in paradise.....

IronFox · Post by **IronFox** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:25 pm

Chaser617 wrote:The sad thing is if you read the Khoran, Mohammoud actually declares suicide a mortal sin (not in so many words but, its there) which, any good catholic and/or anglican will tell you, is the only sin you cannot go to confession for, there your riding the one way handbasket.

Granted, I have also yet to find the part about getting the women and children you kill to serve you in paradise.....

I believe that we can be fairly certain that those are the words of unscrupulous clerics who want to manipulate faithful (of whatever stripe) for their own gain.

EdBecerra · Post by **EdBecerra** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:57 pm

Chaser617 wrote:The sad thing is if you read the Khoran, Mohammoud actually declares suicide a mortal sin (not in so many words but, its there) which, any good catholic and/or anglican will tell you, is the only sin you cannot go to confession for, there your riding the one way handbasket.

Granted, I have also yet to find the part about getting the women and children you kill to serve you in paradise.....

I spoke with a imam once about that. For a fundamentalist, he was rather patient with me. And the explanation he offered was this: If I put a gun to my head out of despair, that's suicide. If I die while on a volunteer mission for the military, that's NOT suicide. The difference? God did not want me to take my own life... unless HE'S the one ordering me to. In short, or so the imam put it, the human race are not the children of Allah, we're the slaves and servants of Allah. Property. And property doesn't destroy itself, it waits for the master to give orders to destroy it. When you take your own life, you're defying Allah's wishes, and his intentions for you - his plans to use you in the future, so to speak. Whereas a suicide bomber isn't defying Allah's wishes, he's carrying them out.

In short, if Allah tells you to blow yourself up, it's not suicide by ALLAH's standards, only a obedient slave doing as he's told.

Sounds rather like the Three Laws of Robotics to me.. the Third law, in particular. A robot must protect its own existance (it is, after all, an expensive piece of machinery!), EXCEPT when doing so would conflict with the First or Second laws of Robotics.

UncleMonty · Post by **UncleMonty** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:47 pm

In a nutshell, if your religion gives a human being the authority of God, you need a new religion.

Chaser617 · Post by **Chaser617** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:12 pm

EdBecerra wrote:
Chaser617 wrote:The sad thing is if you read the Khoran, Mohammoud actually declares suicide a mortal sin (not in so many words but, its there) which, any good catholic and/or anglican will tell you, is the only sin you cannot go to confession for, there your riding the one way handbasket.

Granted, I have also yet to find the part about getting the women and children you kill to serve you in paradise.....
I spoke with a imam once about that. For a fundamentalist, he was rather patient with me. And the explanation he offered was this: If I put a gun to my head out of despair, that's suicide. If I die while on a volunteer mission for the military, that's NOT suicide. The difference? God did not want me to take my own life... unless HE'S the one ordering me to. In short, or so the imam put it, the human race are not the children of Allah, we're the slaves and servants of Allah. Property. And property doesn't destroy itself, it waits for the master to give orders to destroy it. When you take your own life, you're defying Allah's wishes, and his intentions for you - his plans to use you in the future, so to speak. Whereas a suicide bomber isn't defying Allah's wishes, he's carrying them out.

In short, if Allah tells you to blow yourself up, it's not suicide by ALLAH's standards, only a obedient slave doing as he's told.

Sounds rather like the Three Laws of Robotics to me.. the Third law, in particular. A robot must protect its own existance (it is, after all, an expensive piece of machinery!), EXCEPT when doing so would conflict with the First or Second laws of Robotics.

And there we have a big difference between Christianity and Islam, any pastor, padre or reverend you talk to will say that no matter what, suicide is wrong. The one lone exception is when you knowingly forfit your life to save another. Forefitting your life to kill another is definately a nono.

Kerry Skydancer · Post by **Kerry Skydancer** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:25 pm

LoneWolf23k wrote:While I've read a bit of references that state that Islam is supposed to be tolerant of "People of the Book" (Christians and Jews), I fail to see any actual evidence of this tolerance in the real world.

This is a matter of how they define 'tolerance'. Apparently, it means you're allowed to continue practicing your religion as long as you allow them to proselytize your kids, obey their rules in public, pay extra taxes for the privilege, and agree to be third-class citizens (or more likely, subjects). Anyone other than Christians and Jews don't even get -that- much consideration. Being independent and telling them to pound sand when they act like spoiled brats isn't on their list of tolerated practices.