Well, it's a nice sentiment. But realistically, in some cases you can't oppose somebody and respect them at the same time. I'll never respect anti-religion ACLU people or pro-abortionists, for example, because they're hating people for what they being Christian and advocating killing innocent lives, respectively.
I'll pray for them to come to their sense, you can rest assured of that. And if they do come to realize what they're doing is wrong, then it's water under the bridge, forgiven, forgotten. But until such time, I stand against them and will say without hesitation that they're immoral.
Plot synopsis: 12-19-05
John 2:9-11 : He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
"Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?"
- James 4:11-12
"Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?"
- James 4:11-12
Last edited by Mopman on Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
So then you're saying I should condone their immorality, their bigotry, and their depraved indifference to human life, then? Frankly I think you're the one who needs to learn tolerance. You need to learn to tolerate people who are willing to say there's a right and a wrong. And I pray that God is more understanding of how I feel than you are.
There are two things that define a man: What God gives him, and what he does with that.
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StrangeWulf13
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Idiot. Never, not even once, did Mike say he hated them. He opposes their behavior. But he doesn't hate them. "Hate the sin, love the sinner." Or is this against scripture?
I do not support the behavior of gays or accepting women into the military. Does this make me a male chauvinistic homophobe?
I submit it does not. Please, if you must quote the scriptures, use your brain when you do so. God gave you a mind; use it!
I do not support the behavior of gays or accepting women into the military. Does this make me a male chauvinistic homophobe?
I submit it does not. Please, if you must quote the scriptures, use your brain when you do so. God gave you a mind; use it!
I'm lost. I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back, please ask me to wait. Thanks.
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LoneWolf23k
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Well, even when one does wage war, there's room for christian mercy.. The Geneva Convention and it's rules on the treatment of prisonners and the like, was based on the christian concept of not doing needless harm to people. We western soldiers follow these rules, even if emotion dictates we ignore them.Mike Fang wrote:Well, it's a nice sentiment. But realistically, in some cases you can't oppose somebody and respect them at the same time. I'll never respect anti-religion ACLU people or pro-abortionists, for example, because they're hating people for what they being Christian and advocating killing innocent lives, respectively.
I'll pray for them to come to their sense, you can rest assured of that. And if they do come to realize what they're doing is wrong, then it's water under the bridge, forgiven, forgotten. But until such time, I stand against them and will say without hesitation that they're immoral.
We proudly wear our uniforms to mark ourselves as enemies, drawing fire towards us and not civilians. We treat captured prisonners with a minimum of humanity and decency, we avoid attacking areas where civilians might be harmed unless we have no choice, and we favor weapons of precision over mass destruction. And most importantly, we never enter combat lightly, and always favor diplomacy over warfare.
Now, compare that with our adversaries, the likes of Al-Quaeda and the Insurgents. They conceal themselves amongst civilians. They favor attacking non-combatants rather then soldiers, using weapons with as much mass destructive impact as they can get their hands on. And most importantly, their idea of diplomacy is "Do as we say, or we kill these hostages."
Noticed the differences between Christian Soldiers and Muslim Jihadists yet?
Well I think that some things in the scripture are open to interpretation, and faith and being Christian is about more than just being able to quote scripture. It's about thinking about what that scripture means and how it should be applied. Should it be applied so that it binds us from preventing and speaking against what we are taught and what we believe is wrong in the eyes of God?
I do not question the truth of The Bible, only the message that is perceived. I entirely believe in forgiveness. And I think that people should forgive, but what they should forgive, sometimes with and sometimes without an actual appology, are things done and said against them personally. Actions, words, and opinions held that hurt or agree with the hurting of innocent people besides yourself is another matter entirely.
I cannot condone certain actions because they are against the very core of my faith. And to commit or to condone these actions without any remorse can't be ignored. If there are no consequences for doing something that is wrong and not asking forgiveness for it, then no one will stop.
I do not question the truth of The Bible, only the message that is perceived. I entirely believe in forgiveness. And I think that people should forgive, but what they should forgive, sometimes with and sometimes without an actual appology, are things done and said against them personally. Actions, words, and opinions held that hurt or agree with the hurting of innocent people besides yourself is another matter entirely.
I cannot condone certain actions because they are against the very core of my faith. And to commit or to condone these actions without any remorse can't be ignored. If there are no consequences for doing something that is wrong and not asking forgiveness for it, then no one will stop.
There are two things that define a man: What God gives him, and what he does with that.
I began to quote scripture because one of the posters said they did not remember seeing what I had started out with in the Bible.
I started this topic when one of the posters mentioned hunting down and killing the editors and reporters from a newspaper.
I simply wanted to remind people that as we are approaching Christmas that Christs messages should mean something .If I have offended then I apologize.
I started this topic when one of the posters mentioned hunting down and killing the editors and reporters from a newspaper.
I simply wanted to remind people that as we are approaching Christmas that Christs messages should mean something .If I have offended then I apologize.
StrangeWulf: Heh, easy there bud. I greatly appreciate you standing by me, but let's not start slinging insults here. To be honest, while I'm not sure I can definitively say I "hate" them, I know that as people I don't like them and I don't have a shred of respect for them. Maybe I'm a little harsh that way, but it's how I feel.Idiot. Never, not even once, did Mike say he hated them. He opposes their behavior. But he doesn't hate them. "Hate the sin, love the sinner." Or is this against scripture?
I do not support the behavior of gays or accepting women into the military. Does this make me a male chauvinistic homophobe?
I submit it does not. Please, if you must quote the scriptures, use your brain when you do so. God gave you a mind; use it!
LoneWolf: Very true. There is such a thing as honorable combat.Well, even when one does wage war, there's room for christian mercy.. The Geneva Convention and it's rules on the treatment of prisonners and the like, was based on the christian concept of not doing needless harm to people. We western soldiers follow these rules, even if emotion dictates we ignore them.
We proudly wear our uniforms to mark ourselves as enemies, drawing fire towards us and not civilians. We treat captured prisonners with a minimum of humanity and decency, we avoid attacking areas where civilians might be harmed unless we have no choice, and we favor weapons of precision over mass destruction. And most importantly, we never enter combat lightly, and always favor diplomacy over warfare.
Now, compare that with our adversaries, the likes of Al-Quaeda and the Insurgents. They conceal themselves amongst civilians. They favor attacking non-combatants rather then soldiers, using weapons with as much mass destructive impact as they can get their hands on. And most importantly, their idea of diplomacy is "Do as we say, or we kill these hostages."
Noticed the differences between Christian Soldiers and Muslim Jihadists yet?
Mopman: S'alright, no real harm done (See? Forgiveness here people!)
And you are right, the Bible does say those things you quoted. But as I was told, Jesus said that while we are to be forgiving and to turn the other cheek, He also said that when we see wrong, it is our duty as Christians to tell people that what they're doing is wrong. We don't have to make people change, that's God's job (though it is feasable that God acts through people to make other people change), but we don't have to stand by and do or say nothing when we see that what is happening isn't right. After all, Jesus drove the money lenders from the temple with a whip and called the pharasees vipers and hypocrites.
I guess to quote my father "The best advice giveable is to encourage someone to read the entire Bible, not just parts of it".
But now I think I'd better stop while the hatchet is buried. *chuckles*
There are two things that define a man: What God gives him, and what he does with that.
t.s.a.o Wrote:
The problem with Hollywood it that they want to blame on the United States and President Bush for everything.
Don't be ashamed! Just tell the truth in you films.waaaaahhhh I'm so ashamed now of even wanting to be a filmmaker!
The problem with Hollywood it that they want to blame on the United States and President Bush for everything.
"I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by."
-- Douglas Adams
-- Douglas Adams
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UncleMonty
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Well this is what happens when someone quotes scripture, but has no idea what he's saying.
The word "brother" is not a generic term like "your fellow man" or "your neighbor".
In the scriptures, a brother was a brother-in-Christ.. A Christian. A fellow believer.
It does not apply to those outside of the faith. Is Saddam Hussein my brother? No, he is not.
Nor is Michael Moore, nor any such people.
There are many Christian scriptures describing civil, loving behavior toward unrepentant sinners, but nothing in the Bible demands I call them "brother".
The word "brother" is not a generic term like "your fellow man" or "your neighbor".
In the scriptures, a brother was a brother-in-Christ.. A Christian. A fellow believer.
It does not apply to those outside of the faith. Is Saddam Hussein my brother? No, he is not.
Nor is Michael Moore, nor any such people.
There are many Christian scriptures describing civil, loving behavior toward unrepentant sinners, but nothing in the Bible demands I call them "brother".
Avoid those who speak badly of the people, for such wish to rule over you.
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Shyal_malkes
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1) you assume that scorn and contempt for immorality, and using a harsh hand on someone for their immoral deeds, is "hate."mopman wrote:John 2:9-11 : He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother..."
- James 4:11-12
If I really really hated my enemies, I would keep encouraging them to behave and believe just as they do now, and never raise so much as a cruel word to them. I would praise them for their depravity, encourage them in their contemptuous deeds, and soothe their consciences with soft buttery words.
Then I'd sit and laugh my ass off as they busted hell wide open.
It's the one that lets the child play with the shiny knife, not the one that slaps the child's hand, that truly hates the child.
2)You assume that all men are my brothers.
Note this: fellowship does not come before forgiveness, <I>and forgiveness does not come before repentance.</i> We are brothers under the spirit of adoption, but those that vehemently reject us are not our brethren--- by their own choice.
We ARE to love our neighbors--- but again, see the above.
3)It is not for their own sakes that I oppose them, <I>but for the sakes of their innocent victims.</i> These people aren't just hurting themselves with their pride, arrogance, greed, corruption, and lies... they are hurting innocent people. Do you think that Micheal Moore's libel, slander, and outright treasonous propagandizing for the enemy have not yielded a harvest of suffering and death?
Where is YOUR love for THOSE people?
4)As for judgement bible further commands us that we ARE to arbitrate matters amongst ourselves, because one day we will judge matters between the angels themselves...
Does that sound like a commandment for universal flushing of moral standards and contempt for immorality and unethicality?
The verses spouted most often in this argument are not commandments against judging anyone anywhere ever, <I>but against hypocrisy.</i>
Christ himself blistered the self-righteous and the corrupt of His day with a caustic and truthful tongue, and even took up a whip and flogged the moneylenders from the temple.
We are the salt of the earth. Not the powdered sugar.
"What was that popping noise ?"
"A paradigm shifting without a clutch."
--Dilbert
"A paradigm shifting without a clutch."
--Dilbert
I'd say it's quite possible to oppose and respect someone at the same time. I completely oppose the ideals that many of these terrorists organizations seem to stand for, including Osama bin Laden. However, I have respect for OBL because of the fact that he was able to organize the type of calculated, orchestrated attack that he made on the United States. You cannot be a moron and pull something like that off--likewise, you can't be a moron and evade capture for more than FOUR YEARS. He's an intelligent and capable individual and that is why he deserves a degree of respect. (Note: Respect and admiration are NOT one and the same. I have respect for him, but I'm about as far from admiring him as I am from the Andromeda galaxy) I don't support the Nazi party, but I hold respect for Hitler because he was a skilled writer and a powerful orator who, at the very least, knew how to tell people what they wanted to hear (how ELSE would he have been elected?).Mike Fang wrote:Well, it's a nice sentiment. But realistically, in some cases you can't oppose somebody and respect them at the same time. I'll never respect anti-religion ACLU people or pro-abortionists, for example, because they're hating people for what they being Christian and advocating killing innocent lives, respectively.
I'll pray for them to come to their sense, you can rest assured of that. And if they do come to realize what they're doing is wrong, then it's water under the bridge, forgiven, forgotten. But until such time, I stand against them and will say without hesitation that they're immoral.
If a person deserves respect, he should be granted respect. If a person does not deserve respect, he shouldn't get respect--REGARDLESS of whether or not you agree with his ideals.
I try not to resort to name-calling and I try to avoid vulgar language, with some minor degree of success. When you lower yourself to the level of people who choose to argue with insults and invectives rather than facts and information, those people tend to drag you down kicking and screaming, then proceed to bash you over the head with superior experience. (For further evidence, refer to attourney Jack Thompson, a man notorious for degrading intelligent debate into verbal assaults, veiled threats and name-calling)
^ the above was me sounding like I know WTF I'm talking about.