5/16/05

[The Lurker Below]

As much as I love Thelma's finally realizing that she is beautiful, I think that we are seeing a repetition of some rather ugly behavior by Tuck.

The way that his is grabbing hold of Thelma and forcing her to look at the mirror is abusive, despite his having the best of intentions. (And this is on the heels of his having dragged her into the contest in the first place!)

Tuck may have a heart of gold and the best motivations and goals, but he has got to learn that you don't man handle a lady - especially the woman that you love.

8)

[Sharuuk]

As much as I love Thelma's finally realizing that she is beautiful, I think that we are seeing a repetition of some rather ugly behavior by Tuck.

The way that his is grabbing hold of Thelma and forcing her to look at the mirror is abusive, despite his having the best of intentions. (And this is on the heels of his having dragged her into the contest in the first place!)

Tuck may have a heart of gold and the best motivations and goals, but he has got to learn that you don't man handle a lady - especially the woman that you love.

8)

Thelma's a country girl and an ass kicker to boot.....in her mind she's not being manhandled or abused....trust me. She's also quite strong and this isn't a fight....if she decided to resist Tuck with any strength, he'd know it and more'n likely back off......she knows he's not trying to rough her up or harm her and isn't fighting him.

Shaaruuk

[Dragoncry]

Having to once do that to someone, I can tell you that it is not easy. In fact, it is VERY hard. Breaking through that kind of a barrier can hurt them badly. Her line at the end, 'more then you'll ever know', is a perfect example of this. We like our walls that we put up, they help keep us safe. If done wrong it leaves the person more scared then they ever were, an attempt and a fail, like what she was feeling right there, puts you that much farther behind in the healing. At the same time, if not done it can ruin their life almost as badly. Best example I can think of is lancing a wound. It is going to hurt like hell, but if not taken care of the poison builds up till it bursts. Now, convince that person with the wound to let you approch with a red hot poker.

The fight is not won yet. If my read of her is right, she has a LOT more to do before she's ready to let that old wound heal over and go away. But for the moment, she has a chance.

Sometimes you DO need to simply grab the person and show them. But, and a big but, each person has their own way of letting go. (Let professionals handle it, most the time).

(I've had someone help me break through a personal barrier before, about things in my early life. It.. was one of the hardest things I have ever done in this life. I've never felt so whole afterewards, I never want to have to go through that again.)

[Calbeck]

There are times when you just have to refuse to let someone you love do themselves a misfortune. Tuck really didn't have much choice...given the first chance, Thelma was going to go into a funk and spend hours just reinforcing her negative self-image. And it would have likely taken more than a shake and some stern words to stop that once it started.

[Nome]

I dunno - most of the left doesn't seem to have any arguments beyond the preschool 'I want it to be this way, or I'll hold my breath until I turn blue!' routine. Ralph portrays the net result of their attitudes quite well.

Actually, this describes a lot of right-wingers I've met as well. No one has a monopoly on stupidity. What net results would we be discussing?

[Albert the Absentminded]

RHJunior's attitudes are remarkably compatible with LDS morals and culture. So it's not surprising to find a number of LDS around here.

Heck, my only problem with his comics is that he's not very good at portraying the actual arguments of the Left. However, since getting a grip on how the other side thinks is _really_ hard when theres such a huge gulf between the two, it doesn't significantly detract from my enjoyment.

(Of course, a _lot_ of self-proclaimed intellectuals _do_ pull out the hate card at the first sign of opposition.)

As a tangent, it's amusing how much the left claims to despise corporations and such when leftists and managers share so many traits, a love of buzzwords being one of them.

-Albert

I dunno - most of the left doesn't seem to have any arguments beyond the preschool 'I want it to be this way, or I'll hold my breath until I turn blue!' routine. Ralph portrays the net result of their attitudes quite well.

That's because you don't know where to look. Check out Baen's Bar, the webforum of Baen Books. You can find articulate and well-thought-out positions on practically everything. Although check out the FAQs conference before posting.

If I ever manage to finish a novel, I'll dedicate it to the Barflies, for showing me how seemingly rational people can honestly hold opinions vastly different from mine.

-Albert

[Shyal_malkes]

I have met few people, weather they agreed with me or not, that could not adequately defend tehir own opinions.

i've met open-minded liberals, closed minded-conservatives, closed-minded liberals and i know of one that I might describe as an open-minded conservative. mostly though i find it best not to judtge people too much or too quickly, because once you pull the trigger, there is no stopping that bullet.

there may be a number of LDS fans of RHJunior's works.

[RHJunior]

Heck, my only problem with his comics is that he's not very good at portraying the actual arguments of the Left.

Frankly, I'm less interested in portraying how the Left "thinks"--- because they don't think, and demonstrate that on a daily basis--- than I am in displaying exactly what their jibber-jabber MEANS, in actuality, and what the consequences are when you carry out their pixie-dust world vision.

Buzzwords, blither, and PC platitudes sound nice... but it does nothing but obstruct the objective reality of their ideology.

Let's take a popular Leftist Platitude--- "compassion." Nobody could possibly be against COMPASSION, could they? Of course not! Contrary to what the Left thinks, conservatives are compassionate, and value compassion. Conservatives as a group give more to charitable causes, for instance, than liberals do (though you rarely hear about THAT.) And isn't it those rabid evil Christian Conservatives who preach Love Thy Neighbor?

Of course conservatives value compassion. If they didn't, then Liberals wouldn't be using it as a flail to try and guilt Conservatives into doing things the Liberal way.

But Conservatives are smart enough to know that when a Liberal says "compassion," his idea of how to EXECUTE compassion is radically different.

To a liberal, "compassion" means taking tax dollars from the more prosperous and distributing it to those who have less---- which means, <I>in the real world</i>, taking other people's money, and giving it away to those who have not earned it.
Not only is this immoral on its face, but time and trial have proven this method to be <I>counterproductive</i>, because it has effectively subsidized an entire welfare class--- rewarding idleness, infidelity, illegitimacy, and oh yes <I>liberal voting tendencies,</i> while simultaneously punishing thrift, hard work, and prosperity with ever more punitive taxes.

("Share with the rest of the class" sounds sweet and nice when it's the rule in a Kindergarten class. Unfortunately, Liberals grow up thinking that all they needed to know they learned in Kindergarten.... and never learning that Kindergarten was a crock.)


To a liberal, it is "compassion" to help an unwed mother terminate her unwanted pregnancy without interference from her parents---- <I>in the real world,</i> this means helping a teenage girl kill a little baby so that she doesn't have to face the consequences of her immorality-- compounding fornication with murder.

To a liberal, it is "compassion" to give someone a dignified death. <I>In the real world,</i> this means killing a person in their sickbed because it's become uncomfortable and inconvenient for other people to be around them and keep them alive.

To a liberal, it is "compassion" to commute a death sentence to a life sentence, or to release someone convicted of murder or rape back into society after they've been reformed. <I>In the real world,</i> A life sentence for a rapist or murderer means that this desecrator of humanity recieves "three hots and a cot", plus free medical care, free legal counsel, and countless other amenities and conveniences for the rest of his life at the expense of the very people he violated.... ameneties that, most likely, his innocent victims could never afford. <I>In the real world,</i> releasing a convicted rapist, murderer, or pedophile back into society violates his victims anew--- declaring that, according to the Law, their anguish and suffering and pain meant <I>nothing.</i> And that the well-being of the community in which these monsters are released to hunt again means even less.

No, I'm not portraying how leftists think. I'm not interested in portraying how liberals "think", or what their <I>intentions</i> are. I have no interest whatsoever in what sort of paving-stones they're using for that infamous road to Hell. I am only interested in making it very clear in which direction they're laying the pavement.

[Shyal_malkes]

I've heard a liberal rant against non-liberals,

I've heard conservatives rant against non-conservatives

in the end it all sounds the same to me

rant...

rant...

rant...

rant...

I hate politics...

[IronMike]

"The hardest chains to break are the ones we shackle ourselves with."

I don't know who said it, but it couldn't be more true. Good to see that Tuck's intent on handing her the file....

[RDB]

I hate politics...

AKA "Stupid Human Tricks"

Ron

[Fluffball]

As much as I love Thelma's finally realizing that she is beautiful, I think that we are seeing a repetition of some rather ugly behavior by Tuck.

The way that his is grabbing hold of Thelma and forcing her to look at the mirror is abusive, despite his having the best of intentions. (And this is on the heels of his having dragged her into the contest in the first place!)

Tuck may have a heart of gold and the best motivations and goals, but he has got to learn that you don't man handle a lady - especially the woman that you love.

8)

Well yeah I'm sure if i seen someone do this I would stopp him and set him aside and wonder wtf is up.. One time in a restaurant I watched what seemed to be a boyfreind trying to talk to one of the female waitresses who i'm assuming is his gf and then suddenly start to shove her out the door. I was so readdy to follow them out and beat the shit out of the guy but you have to reealize you don't know the situation or why they guy did the action.. Just cause it's a woman doesnt always means shes in distress. Such is the case with Thelma and Tuck. Yes I believe Tuck was a little over forcefull with his actions but you have to realize that Tuck wasn't good at showing his true emotions for Thelma from the begining. and its hard for him to try to talk to her and explain to her how he loved her for what she was, not for just looks. And I'm sure that it's fustrating having someone constantly saying how ungly and unwanted they are nomatter what you say. Hopefully Thelma realizes that she is beautifull which is why shes crying and not out of frear for Tucks actions...

[Sharuuk]

The LAST thing Thelma's crying about is fear of Tuck's actions.

Shaaruuk

[Shyal_malkes]

oh sheesh! can't this forum stay off topic for five minutes!?

[Fluffball]

oh sheesh! can't this forum stay off topic for five minutes!?

Um Shayal, this forum is about the comic Nip and tuck. If you want to talk about something off topic them start a off topic thread and post it

[Shyal_malkes]

i was making a joke, normally it seems that we can't seem to keep "on" topic for longer then 5 minutes.

of course i could be wrong about this forum, as i usually just frequent the npc forum but over there, if it's on topic we aim to change it.

to be on topic though for a change

i've felt inadequacy/depression myself, though not something i've felt all my life i know how hard it can be to cut through. sometimes a tough ally is the best medicine, even when the ally is tough on us too.

[The JAM]

[...unWARP!!!]

Good evening.


I will interpret that Tuck is NOT doing anything ungentlemanly. Perchance, his grip is firm, but not vice-like, and the muscles he's flexing are a result of frustration. (How many times have you heard a woman plead, "you're hurting me!" when all the guy is doing is grabbing her arm?). He isn't jerking her around, but instead is firmly getting her to stand in front of the mirror, and look at herself in the mirror -- note that her cheeks aren't bunched up, which would be the case if he was gripping her much harder.

If you will recall, Thelma needed a brain-reset on the night of the dance because she was berating herself, and Tuck was there to give it to her. Now, she was sliding back into self-bashing, and again Tuck needed her to jolt her to reality. Firm? Yes. Violent? Nah.

Now, I'm all 100% against wanton violence against women, however, I've seen councellors that had to, literally, slap some sense into some women AND men, because at the moment, their behaviour was histerical, iirrational, and over-emotional. Afterward, the person in question THANKED the councellor. It's an extreme situation, of course, but given the circumstances, the actions were necessary.

[Andrick]

Some things to keep in mind when evaluating this comic: these two have known each other their whole lives, Tuck and Thelma have been close friends throughout that time, and they have been intimately closer as a couple for at least several months. I think each knows where the line is drawn by the other well before it is crossed.

[StrangeWulf13]

Sheesh... I leave for a bit and the thread goes and balloons on me. =P Not that it's the first time it's happened, but it's always a surprise.

Now, for my own two cents...

Albert (I hope I got the right person), I concede that competence is needed in any job a person hopes to fill. Lacking in it is certainly grounds for firing an employee, as much as inappropriate behavior towards customers.

However, being able to do the job doesn't do you much good if you're convinced you're not. That's why confidence is so important; people have to believe in themselves before they can accomplish anything.

You want an example? Take a look at me. I'm still living with my parents, 22-years-old, struggling through life, not really making much of myself. "Wasting my potential" is what my parents call it. I could probably do a lot of things, even find a job on my own. The problem is that I lack confidence in myself. I have trouble believing I could really do whatever I wanted to.

I could probably become a famous writer if I wanted to. But I'm still holding back... still afraid of failure, of not making it... it's not my mom with the vision of me broke and starving in a messy apartment...

...it's me.

Without confidence in themselves, real confidence not some stupid "self-esteem" that makes them curl up and whine when bad stuff happens, people will never live up to their potential.

When you've heard the devil whisper how worthless you are for years, and hear people repeat it... it's very hard to listen to God's voice saying you're worth more than diamonds.

Without true confidence, you will never become anything. It's just that simple.

[RHJunior]

recommendation for those who wish to be writers:

1)GET OUT OF THE HOUSE.
Get a job bagging groceries and flipping burgers, and rent a room with the money--- one with dialup access at least. And one (this is important now!) as far away from your parents as you can get. Look, this sounds hateful, but it was advice my own father gave me (in these words, no less): "Until you get out on your own, you won't really develop as your own person." And if you've got other people whistling negativism in your ear all the time, it's no good anyway.

2)WRITE.
Get yourself a livejournal/weblog. Write in it daily, on whateverthehell you want--- and if you don't have anything you want to write on that day, literally pick a topic at random (http://www.blogideas.com), and write a few hundred words on that. This is important. It gives you PRACTICE, and it gives you FEEDBACK. It will tell you more about your writing style than any number of writing courses.


3)PUBLISH
Mainstream publishers are bull. Got that? They have a limited number of open slots for publishing, a blinkered vision of what will and what won't sell, a limited number of outlets for your product, and they have infinity times Stupid number of desperate writers banging on their door every day. You're wasting your time, your money, and your LIFE trying to squeeze through that bottleneck.
The proper solution is to SELF PUBLISH. There are countless Self Publishing and Print On Demand outlets out there. Use one! I myself use HTTP://WWW.LULU.COM
They require no payments from you, no money down, and offer a wide range of promotional services (for a charge)--- they take the orders, print on demand, charge the price YOU set, and send you the profit.

Diversify where you can--- submitting shorts and articles to various magazines would be a good step--- but don't wait for ANYONE'S permission to create.