Here comes some pain!!
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SolidusRaccoon
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Thanks for clearing that up, no can we have the bloody end of Marty?
Yes, sir. I agree completely. It takes a well-balanced individual... such as yourself to rule the world. No, sir. No one knows that you were the third one... Solidus. ...What should I do about the woman? Yes sir. I'll keep her under surveillance. Yes. Thank you. Good-bye...... Mr. President.
Except you shot that factoid in the foot when making an earlier punchline. Unless Hortense has only been in the worst types of shows, how would she know what happens "all the time"?RHJunior wrote:Okay, time to FCYA.
1)The "teen model contest" concealed, or obscured, the fees they were leveling. Even the sleazier ones, btw, put their fees <I>up front.</i>
Which was Marge; she is the "they". This wasn't a fault of Marty's... which was my argument in the first place. Stop stealing my thunder.RHJunior wrote:2)They just turned a teenager over to a porno photographer...
No, Marty's holding money over her head. He doesn't control her debts unless there is some whopper coming in the comic which will show the direct connection of Marty to Marge's boss that details Marty's manipulation of Thelma's red ink. Without that direct finagling Marty is not in a position to coerce Thelma.RHJunior wrote:3)"It's purely consensual!"---- except for the fact that Marty's holding financial ruin over her head...
What I'm getting at by arguing with you, Ralph, is that what you have in your head isn't showing up in the comic. Your counterpoints to mine hold no water where it counts because your comic shows otherwise.
My original point still stands; there is no justification for Thelma attacking Marty. Marty was no Gus spoiling for a fight and even Gus got fair warning from both Nip & Tuck of what he would be reaping if he continued.
By the by, does that stand for "Fact Control Y'All"?
"I don't know why, but watching 12-year old Japanese girls flinging their school uniforms at each other was wildly entertaining." - Azrael, Japanese Exchange Teacher.
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Labrusca
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Heaven's sake, get a grip. It's a COMIC strip, not Nobel Prize literature. It's fun, and it's standard comedy to see a bad guy try to set up someone, and have the potential victim get the better of him, one way or another.
You're nitpicking worse than a line of chimpanzees grooming each other.
Or are you just waiting for the Three Billy Goats Gruff to come by?
You're nitpicking worse than a line of chimpanzees grooming each other.
Or are you just waiting for the Three Billy Goats Gruff to come by?
There's no insanity in my family. *I* have it all!!
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SolidusRaccoon
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BAH, Marty still needs to be gutted for even offering the job. Hell he should be hung for even thinking about it.
Yes, sir. I agree completely. It takes a well-balanced individual... such as yourself to rule the world. No, sir. No one knows that you were the third one... Solidus. ...What should I do about the woman? Yes sir. I'll keep her under surveillance. Yes. Thank you. Good-bye...... Mr. President.
Noted, Solidus. 
No, Labrusca, I'm not a refugee from Mimi's desk. Just a former forum regular who hasn't felt the need to speak up in a couple of years.
As for the Nobel Prize winning material, why not? I like the comics I read to be good, really good. If I wanted substandard I'd still be reading the Cyantian Chronicles, Gene Catlow and Stolen Generation. All of them are visually appealing comics, but their art cannot cover bad scripting and weak stories. Most of the time Ralph is outstanding with his comic stories. Add that to beautiful art in its own right and you have entertainment to which it is rare to find an equal. So, yeah, I expect so much more out of Ralph's comics because he is that much better than the other comic artists.
True as all of that may be, none of it was part of the reason I piped up at all. When I read the comic with Thelma finding out for the first time what type of photo shoot she was in, I decided to amble back to the forum which I had haunted so long ago and see what kinds of things were stirring. Lo and behold the crowing, I could almost see everyone high-fiving each other ringside at a wrestlemania event and demanding blood. I saw no less than four threads all with hate, venom and wishes for bodily harm on Marty. Gus didn't have that many when we saw signs of him being an abusive controller to BeeBee. I already said why I don't think Marty deserved what he got, no need to repeat.
Thelma has had to deal with some serious issues and there's still an aftermath to her story with the fallout among her friends. Thelma at least has the notion that she did fly off the handle and things could've been a lot worse because of it. Then there was the pretense afterwards where she was deliberately hiding the truth from her friends. If she sees herself as being in the right then what kind of a person is she to absolve herself so?
No, Labrusca, I'm not a refugee from Mimi's desk. Just a former forum regular who hasn't felt the need to speak up in a couple of years.As for the Nobel Prize winning material, why not? I like the comics I read to be good, really good. If I wanted substandard I'd still be reading the Cyantian Chronicles, Gene Catlow and Stolen Generation. All of them are visually appealing comics, but their art cannot cover bad scripting and weak stories. Most of the time Ralph is outstanding with his comic stories. Add that to beautiful art in its own right and you have entertainment to which it is rare to find an equal. So, yeah, I expect so much more out of Ralph's comics because he is that much better than the other comic artists.
True as all of that may be, none of it was part of the reason I piped up at all. When I read the comic with Thelma finding out for the first time what type of photo shoot she was in, I decided to amble back to the forum which I had haunted so long ago and see what kinds of things were stirring. Lo and behold the crowing, I could almost see everyone high-fiving each other ringside at a wrestlemania event and demanding blood. I saw no less than four threads all with hate, venom and wishes for bodily harm on Marty. Gus didn't have that many when we saw signs of him being an abusive controller to BeeBee. I already said why I don't think Marty deserved what he got, no need to repeat.
Thelma has had to deal with some serious issues and there's still an aftermath to her story with the fallout among her friends. Thelma at least has the notion that she did fly off the handle and things could've been a lot worse because of it. Then there was the pretense afterwards where she was deliberately hiding the truth from her friends. If she sees herself as being in the right then what kind of a person is she to absolve herself so?
"I don't know why, but watching 12-year old Japanese girls flinging their school uniforms at each other was wildly entertaining." - Azrael, Japanese Exchange Teacher.
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The JAM
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[...unWARP!!!]
Good evening.
Hickory Nut Crunch? Isn't that an illegal move in ALL major wrestling federations? At least in Mexico, that move would be labeled a Foul.
Also, Thelma looks HOT in those poses. Don't know why, but she reminds me of Tarzan and/or Jane, for some reason. Maybe it's the polka dot bikini that sorta resembles a leopard print one, he he he...
Attack of the Oppossum Warrior Women!!
Good evening.
Portia Porcupine of The Get Along Gang?Andrick wrote:Shh! Don't tell anyone that I'm pretending to be a Poseur. Portia hater #00001
Hickory Nut Crunch? Isn't that an illegal move in ALL major wrestling federations? At least in Mexico, that move would be labeled a Foul.
Also, Thelma looks HOT in those poses. Don't know why, but she reminds me of Tarzan and/or Jane, for some reason. Maybe it's the polka dot bikini that sorta resembles a leopard print one, he he he...
Attack of the Oppossum Warrior Women!!
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LoneWolf23k
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Well, let's not forget who Hortense is...Andrick wrote: Except you shot that factoid in the foot when making an earlier punchline. Unless Hortense has only been in the worst types of shows, how would she know what happens "all the time"?
Of course she's going to be a bit more cynical about it.-
LoneWolf23k
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More whining from me...
I'd agree, if she weren't brutally assaulting somebodyThe JAM wrote:Also, Thelma looks HOT in those poses. Don't know why, but she reminds me of Tarzan and/or Jane, for some reason. Maybe it's the polka dot bikini that sorta resembles a leopard print one, he he he...
While I don't quite agree with Andrick's "defense" of him, I do agree he doesn't deserve this level of abuse If I were on her jury, I'd probably vote to convict her of assault - I've done it before http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~bauerle/juryduty.txt (I need to add a postscript that the guy got probation, which was a relief...)I would've liked to save this strip to add to my collection of favorite N&T strips, but given what's happening (and why), it kind of takes the pleasure out of it
I've now got the same problem with Thelma's first pic from the shoot (with her looking shyly up at the camera).Instead of/in addition to going after Marty, I hope Thelma (and the crew) go after that sleazeball "model agency" - I know people are stupid and immoral, but trolling in public for jailbait porn models seems a little too over the top for me, even IOACS
Ron
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StrangeWulf13
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*sigh* I'm staying out of this one. Frankly, Andrick, if Ralph can't convince you that a pornographer deserves a beatdown for being part of a scam to hook young women into doing erotica shoots, I doubt anything I could say would make much difference.
And please, give Ralph more credit. We've obviously been given enough evidence to determine that her actions were not without consequences. Whether her actions are right or not, they are technically not legal, and she will have to pay for it.
Which explains the indie wrestling job...
I wonder if Tuck would ever consider going a few rounds with her...
And please, give Ralph more credit. We've obviously been given enough evidence to determine that her actions were not without consequences. Whether her actions are right or not, they are technically not legal, and she will have to pay for it.
Which explains the indie wrestling job...
I wonder if Tuck would ever consider going a few rounds with her...I'm lost. I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back, please ask me to wait. Thanks.
I've gotta side with Andrick on this one...
It might be a scam, but that doesn't really justify assault and battery on someone. I wouldn't really call what Thelma did to Marty as a knee-jerk reaction. When you're talking conversationally to someone you're maiming, I'd put that closer to torture. I honestly feel sorry for Marty in this instance and hope nothing permanent was done to him.
On a side note, I think Tuck should be very very wary of ever ticking Thelma off.
It might be a scam, but that doesn't really justify assault and battery on someone. I wouldn't really call what Thelma did to Marty as a knee-jerk reaction. When you're talking conversationally to someone you're maiming, I'd put that closer to torture. I honestly feel sorry for Marty in this instance and hope nothing permanent was done to him.
On a side note, I think Tuck should be very very wary of ever ticking Thelma off.
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Calbeck
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Just my two beans here:
Regardless of motive, what we legally have here (to start with) is an organization which is selling services to would-be models. For all legal intents and purposes, they give away basic initial services in a contest of their own design. Would-be models then have the option to purchase more services.
However, this essentially-legal concept goes right out the window from the word go.
1) The contest was advertised as "all expenses paid". Requiring a contestant to sign a contract which then reneges on the original "all expenses paid" promise is called "extortionary fraud". It's fraud because the advertising is false, and it's extortion because the victim is required to sign a contract to obtain something they have already won. Unless the poster (not the contract) said "until the first round of photo shoots", it's an open and shut case.
2) Even assuming the contract had been legitimate, the company "kept us hopping" --- by which I presume that, at the company's own initiative, they kept telling the girls to do more and more photo shoots and runways. Since the girls themselves are not requesting these services, but having them presented by the company in the form of a demand for performance, business law defines such extra services as "complimentary". It's the same legal principle that keeps a hotel from charging you $5,000 for the mint on your pillow even though it's not in your hotel rental contract and you didn't ask for it.
3) The company has it on record that Thelma is a minor. Hiring her out for an erotica shoot is not only illegal but a case for major lawsuit on grounds of sexual harassment even if she was never propositioned for sex. This also blows out the "consensual" argument. "Consensual sex" with a minor is known as "statutory rape". Even if Marty was 100% ignorant of these facts, neither he nor his company are absolved. They are required by law to ensure that they do not shoot erotica with minors. Only if the originating company falsified Thelma's age do they have a defense of any kind.
4) Finally, Thelma's minority status also means she can't legally have signed any contracts. Her parents would have had to, as her guardians. This would make THEM, not THELMA, liable for all expenses incurred. But because of the fraudulent nature of the contract itself, none of it is binding on anyone. She's not even liable for the equipment breakage, which occurred when an adult propositioned a minor for sex and said minor defended herself from his advances. On an erotica set, no less.
This case is tailor-made for class-action lawsuit before a jury. Remember, you don't have to PROVE a thing in civil court --- you just have to convince the jury that you deserve just compensation from a person or organization which deserves to be made to pay.
Regardless of motive, what we legally have here (to start with) is an organization which is selling services to would-be models. For all legal intents and purposes, they give away basic initial services in a contest of their own design. Would-be models then have the option to purchase more services.
However, this essentially-legal concept goes right out the window from the word go.
1) The contest was advertised as "all expenses paid". Requiring a contestant to sign a contract which then reneges on the original "all expenses paid" promise is called "extortionary fraud". It's fraud because the advertising is false, and it's extortion because the victim is required to sign a contract to obtain something they have already won. Unless the poster (not the contract) said "until the first round of photo shoots", it's an open and shut case.
2) Even assuming the contract had been legitimate, the company "kept us hopping" --- by which I presume that, at the company's own initiative, they kept telling the girls to do more and more photo shoots and runways. Since the girls themselves are not requesting these services, but having them presented by the company in the form of a demand for performance, business law defines such extra services as "complimentary". It's the same legal principle that keeps a hotel from charging you $5,000 for the mint on your pillow even though it's not in your hotel rental contract and you didn't ask for it.
3) The company has it on record that Thelma is a minor. Hiring her out for an erotica shoot is not only illegal but a case for major lawsuit on grounds of sexual harassment even if she was never propositioned for sex. This also blows out the "consensual" argument. "Consensual sex" with a minor is known as "statutory rape". Even if Marty was 100% ignorant of these facts, neither he nor his company are absolved. They are required by law to ensure that they do not shoot erotica with minors. Only if the originating company falsified Thelma's age do they have a defense of any kind.
4) Finally, Thelma's minority status also means she can't legally have signed any contracts. Her parents would have had to, as her guardians. This would make THEM, not THELMA, liable for all expenses incurred. But because of the fraudulent nature of the contract itself, none of it is binding on anyone. She's not even liable for the equipment breakage, which occurred when an adult propositioned a minor for sex and said minor defended herself from his advances. On an erotica set, no less.
This case is tailor-made for class-action lawsuit before a jury. Remember, you don't have to PROVE a thing in civil court --- you just have to convince the jury that you deserve just compensation from a person or organization which deserves to be made to pay.
BRAVO Calbeck, BRAAAAAVOOooo.....very concisely and PREcisely stated.
So, by your "brief", and going back over all of the strips prior to this, I have to agree with your conclusion, Thelma doesn't know it yet, but legally, she can't be held liable for any of this due to the fraudulent nature of the contract etc.
Nice piece of legal eagle-ing.
Shaaruuk
So, by your "brief", and going back over all of the strips prior to this, I have to agree with your conclusion, Thelma doesn't know it yet, but legally, she can't be held liable for any of this due to the fraudulent nature of the contract etc.
Nice piece of legal eagle-ing.
Shaaruuk
We are NOT surrounded.....this is a "target rich" environment!
Why is it that everyone here is missing the point that the "modeling contest company" is railroading young women into the next most demeaning and degrading thing to PROSTITUTION?
To heck with fraud, deceit, "harassment" this or "statutory" that, they're taking young girls, dangling the promise of glamour and fame in front of them, and then tossing them over to be used as MEAT in the smut industry. <I>They make their gravy off of polluting and debasing people.</i>
If that doesn't sadden, horrify or outrage you, take a good long look in the mirror and ask why.
To heck with fraud, deceit, "harassment" this or "statutory" that, they're taking young girls, dangling the promise of glamour and fame in front of them, and then tossing them over to be used as MEAT in the smut industry. <I>They make their gravy off of polluting and debasing people.</i>
If that doesn't sadden, horrify or outrage you, take a good long look in the mirror and ask why.
"What was that popping noise ?"
"A paradigm shifting without a clutch."
--Dilbert
"A paradigm shifting without a clutch."
--Dilbert
Putting aside the 'demeaning and degrading thing to prostitution' comment, I have to say it is deplorable business practices to use that method. I don't see it as right and Calbeck hit many strong points that I can see about the legality of it all. Which is to say, pretty much non-existant.RHJunior wrote:Why is it that everyone here is missing the point that the "modeling contest company" is railroading young women into the next most demeaning and degrading thing to PROSTITUTION?
To heck with fraud, deceit, "harassment" this or "statutory" that, they're taking young girls, dangling the promise of glamour and fame in front of them, and then tossing them over to be used as MEAT in the smut industry. <I>They make their gravy off of polluting and debasing people.</i>
If that doesn't sadden, horrify or outrage you, take a good long look in the mirror and ask why.
I don't know. I'm a little of the 'Eye for an Eye' mentality and Thelma wasn't really physically abused. Mentally and emotionally? Probably. I don't really think that that gives her justification to see to it that Marty can never have kids or has to eat through a straw the rest of his life (an exaggeration, I hope). Two wrongs don't make a right, though I'm pretty sure Thelma felt immensely better afterwards for a little while
Seems you hit a touchy area for some people. Is that bad? I don't think so. Is it good? I honestly think so. I enjoy your stories and hope to see more of them, even if I don't agree 100% with the choices the characters make in them. That's a nice thing about stories. I don't have to in order to enjoy them
That's something that makes characters interesting in my opinion.P.S. Hope this made sense. Posted when I'm about to pass out.
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Albert the Absentminded
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Two reasons, RH. One of which, yes, is sickening.
#1: You hadn't made it completely, 100% explicitly clear that this was the intent of the company from the beginning.
Yeah, sure, it's pretty obvious - 5K due in 30 days? That has Trap written all over it. But some people are going to want to assume good faith on the part of as many people as possible. Which brings us to #2.
#2: A large number of people have become convinced that porn isn't nearly as degrading as Christianity would have you believe.
Hey, if sex is just another thing, then no big deal, right? Never mind the psycological evidence we've gathered so far, various factions in our country are trying to make sex as acceptable as breathing.
Heck, why do you think the sexual 'norm' for women on television is at the high end of the bell curve? If sex is to become more prevalent, women have to put out more. So the ones with normal sex drives need to be pressured into more proactive displays of sexual behavior. Thus, 'girl power' is coming to mean 'stripper'.
And guys like it. So a lot of us don't think it's that degrading for Thelma. We don't want to. If it's degrading, then we're actively participating in something evil by shelling out the bucks to the porno industry.
The people cheering Thelma on are the good guys, here. Assault is a perfectly valid response to aggravated sexual assault.
-Albert
#1: You hadn't made it completely, 100% explicitly clear that this was the intent of the company from the beginning.
Yeah, sure, it's pretty obvious - 5K due in 30 days? That has Trap written all over it. But some people are going to want to assume good faith on the part of as many people as possible. Which brings us to #2.
#2: A large number of people have become convinced that porn isn't nearly as degrading as Christianity would have you believe.
Hey, if sex is just another thing, then no big deal, right? Never mind the psycological evidence we've gathered so far, various factions in our country are trying to make sex as acceptable as breathing.
Heck, why do you think the sexual 'norm' for women on television is at the high end of the bell curve? If sex is to become more prevalent, women have to put out more. So the ones with normal sex drives need to be pressured into more proactive displays of sexual behavior. Thus, 'girl power' is coming to mean 'stripper'.
And guys like it. So a lot of us don't think it's that degrading for Thelma. We don't want to. If it's degrading, then we're actively participating in something evil by shelling out the bucks to the porno industry.
The people cheering Thelma on are the good guys, here. Assault is a perfectly valid response to aggravated sexual assault.
-Albert
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Ransom Returns
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To me, the issue is simple: Bad guys get beat down in Ralph's comics. Call it comic cultural relativity. Whether it's Quentyn wacking a quack doctor, or Ben Bruin shoving a lawn chair up the rear end of a guy selling pieces of the World Trade Center (remember that ), physical violence is just part of the Ralph Hayes Jr. cartoon world. And let's face it, cartoon violence is fun to watch, especially when done to a sleezeball.
While you may not believe Thelma's response is totally justified, to me it's at least believeble. She's a teenage girl suddenly thrust into a frightening and confusing situation. Now, as it turns out she's a teenage girl perfectly capable and willing to beat somebody within an inch of their life, so to me, the comic at least makes sense.
), physical violence is just part of the Ralph Hayes Jr. cartoon world. And let's face it, cartoon violence is fun to watch, especially when done to a sleezeball. While you may not believe Thelma's response is totally justified, to me it's at least believeble. She's a teenage girl suddenly thrust into a frightening and confusing situation. Now, as it turns out she's a teenage girl perfectly capable and willing to beat somebody within an inch of their life, so to me, the comic at least makes sense.
And I agree, no argument there. I'm just disturbed by the advocacy for violence here, the offering of violence where no threat of violence was presented. If that makes me a bad or evil guy, so be it.Albert the Absentminded wrote:... Assault is a perfectly valid response to aggravated sexual assault.
"I don't know why, but watching 12-year old Japanese girls flinging their school uniforms at each other was wildly entertaining." - Azrael, Japanese Exchange Teacher.
Ahhh....whatdahell......Thelly can plead "Dim-Cap" (diminished capacity) on her [over] reaction to the realization that she's been "mousetrapped" (possumtrapped?) into doing a porno shoot and was most assuredly sexually propositioned unsolicited by Marty to "help her unwind" for the shoot.Andrick wrote:And I agree, no argument there. I'm just disturbed by the advocacy for violence here, the offering of violence where no threat of violence was presented. If that makes me a bad or evil guy, so be it.Albert the Absentminded wrote:... Assault is a perfectly valid response to aggravated sexual assault.
No jury in the South would ever convict her........an' I'd wanna be th' jury foreman.
An' HEY RALPH!!!........Keep on havin' the good guys stomp th' tar outta the baddies.........IT FEELS SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO GOOOD!!!
Shaaruuk
We are NOT surrounded.....this is a "target rich" environment!