Here comes some pain!!

[Squirrelly61104]

You won't be wearing it for long anyway.

Next we do the blue jeans shoot.
What? I like to think the best of people!

a knee-jerk negative reaction

All things considered, that photographer would probably not appreciate that precise choice of words.

Two points. The clause about the hidden cost probably wasn't physically 'hidden'. It was probably buried in a layer of legalese, in the middle of umpteen paragraphs of stuff almost no one reads. Thelma certainly didn't seem to spend a lot of time reading the forms while dangling on her beaus shoulder.
Second, the age of Nip, Tuck, Thelma etc. has never been cast in stone. It's sort of an Archies effect. Even though they started in the thirties, they're still teenagers.
I generally assume that as of 911 the Todds were still minors. Otherwise I think they would have enlisted.
I still get sort of a 'high-schoolish' feel from them all.
What I am getting at is this: Is Thelma over 18?
If not, then she isn't the one who should be worrying about legal repercussions.

[Sharuuk]

What I am getting at is this: Is Thelma over 18? If not, then she isn't the one who should be worrying about legal repercussions.

VERY good point there Squirrelly. However, I think she had to put her age or at least her birthdate on that form she signed.

And no, she probably didn't read it too carefully draped over Tucks shoulder. But we all know that gettin' Thelly in a porno shoot NEVER crossed Tuck's mind. It was just his desperate attempt to get her to see herself as pretty as she really is.

Besides, the banner outside the place only said "TRI-COUNTY MODEL SEARCH". Now I may just be a dumb ol' male here....but I don't believe the first thought in my mind would be "a-HA.....trollin' f'r th' next porno queen!!"

Shaaruuk

[RHJunior]

and submitted that if they're running a scam, they're not going to be too picky about the letter of the law...

[Sharuuk]

and submitted that if they're running a scam, they're not going to be too picky about the letter of the law...

Until they run into Thelma.....quite possibly followed by Tuck!

Shaaruuk

[CasVeg]

I know how we all hate that idea!

Which idea? The idea that he ends up in a body ba. . .er. . .<i>cast</i>, or the idea that Thelma actually <i>touches</i> him? (Ew!)

[Earl McClaw]

and submitted that if they're running a scam, they're not going to be too picky about the letter of the law...

Until they're on the receiving end of court actions, and then they'll want to apply every letter they can get on their side.

I dunno... I think somewhere there's room for a good lawyer to give the contest and photography people screaming fits. (Which lasts so much longer than just a whuppin'.)

Either that or we'll see some good ol' backwoods shuckin' 'n' jivin' revenge... (Lord help the sleazeballs, as that's the only way they'll survive it.)

[The JAM]

[...unWARP!!!]

Good evening.


So the guy was coming on to her as well? No jury in the country would convict Thelma. Add sexual harrasment to the list of charges!

[Sharuuk]

"Ol' Marty" may not hurt Thelma......but I think Thelma's about to lay some SERIOUS HURT on "Good Ol' Marty" here.

OOOooooo SOMEbody get this on video......it'll be GREAT for Thelly's resume!!!!

An' I AIN'T worried about some shyster usin' it in court against her.....he made HIGHLY IMPROPER UN-WANTED ADVANCES on her innocent self an' she defended herself........with great pleasure & effectiveness ahm shore!

Shaaruuk

[BlasTech]

Hooo boy, i think Thelma definately won round one

[StrangeWulf13]

Hooo boy, i think Thelma definately won round one

You're implying this is a contest. I don't think he's a match for her...

[SolidusRaccoon]

Heh, now tear out his spine.

[Labrusca]

Speaking of pain, take a look at the donations to ALL of Ralph's strips.

[Squeaky Bunny]

Heh, now tear out his spine.

I don't think he has any by the look of things.

[Earl McClaw]

Marty forgot one thing about Thelma: she's a farm girl. You know, the kind used to chores before breakfast, helping move bales of hay, getting the work done when the tractor breaks...

...not somebody you want to confront physically.

[Kerry Skydancer]

Speaking of pain, take a look at the donations to ALL of Ralph's strips.

I think something's wrong with the code. They're not reading -zero-, either. Didn't they start at zero last month?

[Andrick]

I know I'm gonna' catch flak for this, but...

The photographer didn't do anything wrong. Yeah, Marty is like those ambulance chasers - he sticks around the modeling contests and other such places where he offers paying photo shoots to women who suddenly find themeselves in debt. It wasn't like he was hiding anything. I don't think the photographer engineered the beauty contest to put Thelma in her fiscal mess. He just arranges to be there with money when Thelma, like those other ladies outside, suddenly realizes she owes more money than she could realistically make so far from home.

As for the "unwanted advance" Thelma didn't convey anything to say "no" prior to attacking Marty. Thelma would've been on the path of the righteous by telling Marty what she thought of both him and his offer of consentual sex before storming out. This is what being a self-actualized individual is all about - having choices and making the right one.

Instead we have one of Thelma's worse moments. Let us have no pretentions about this, she is not defending herself. Even if we could find some kind of rationale for that initial attack in the office, the fact that she is chasing him like a berzerk outside of the office lays aside any question as to whether she was acting to preserve her own safety. Her choice of violence was unwarranted.

[Wayfarer]

The photographer didn't do anything wrong. [...] It wasn't like he was hiding anything.

Except that Thelma had no clue what kind of photo shoot she was going into, which means that if the pig lady who handed her the reference works for him, he was less than honest about the kind of thing he was leading girls to believe they'd be doing. Even if she doesn't, he was far from up-front about the nature of things given what we've seen in the story line. I would say that, if nothing else, this is deliberately misleading, and I'd say that's wrong.

As for the "unwanted advance" Thelma didn't convey anything to say "no" prior to attacking Marty.

I would say that everything about Thelma's body language is screaming deafeningly, "NO!" I would admit the argument that Marty probably wouldn't be of the moral calibre to care, but that is still Marty's fault.

Thelma would've been on the path of the righteous by telling Marty what she thought of both him and his offer of consentual sex before storming out. [...] Even if we could find some kind of rationale for that initial attack in the office, the fact that she is chasing him like a berzerk outside of the office lays aside any question as to whether she was acting to preserve her own safety. Her choice of violence was unwarranted.

The way it's portrayed, her actions seem to involve instinct turning to utter rage - not controlled but automatic action. I could see people having differences of opinion on whether or not she should have acted differently. But I'm not going in that direction.
I do think, though, that your reasoning about Marty overlooks some things.

[Andrick]

Sinister conspiracy? I don't think so. Marty's the client and he is doing a photoshoot. Marty is normally very choosy, but he is short some talent. The lady knows Thelma needs to pay those bills and is distraught, thus she makes the offer and hands her the paperwork. I don't see where Marty was misrepresenting anything unless he was lying to the pageant lady. I doubt that every femme going blind into Marty's shoot would consent and not have word get back to the pageant lady (whom I now dub "Marge"). The conspiracy of hidden intentions hinges upon an improbable collusion... which isn't worthwhile when one considers that it is the incentive of pay that brings models to such shoots.

Body language... Marty picked up on that body language and it said "fearfully shy". That's the problem with body labguage, it is painfully vague and easy to misconstrue unless the people involved have known each other for a longtime. Marty did not have the benefit of perusing the N&T archives.

I don't like that "instinct" swipe at Thelma either. She has always shown herself to have a brain and has managed to speak civilly, and even coherently, when her brain cannot fully process what is going on ("Lord as my witness, I have no idea what to do"). It does not sit well with me that you would just dismiss this character's ability to choose right from wrong just because a person suggested doing two immoral acts.

I've caught the general drift from the forumites here that they do not tolerate "zoomers", of which Marty definitely is one. He "zooms" in when a woman's guard is down, or when she is desperate, and gets what he wants. What everyone needs to come to grips with is that the prey of zoomers are willing; no zoomer can get what he wants unless she gives it to him. It is consentual despite the fact that the person involved is deciding among some very unappealing choices. If you are to fault somebody in this scenario then it would have to be the femmes who make zoomers viable. Doesn't sound very noble to fault weak willed or foolish women, does it? However, that's the reality whether one likes it or not.

[Wayfarer]

I guess my point is that if Thelma had picked up on even the slightest hint of what this shot she was being offered involved, she wouldn't have come to within a mile of it. Therefore I must conclude that it was never apparent. I find it highly questionable to not give someone the details of any job they'll be doing when they sign on, especially when it involves something they might object to. Do they intend to decieve? I guess I really can't say I know. But I still find it questionable to say the least.

I think that with Marty, we may be interpreting the tones differently. When I look back at the comic, I hear a sneer in his voice and I see a leer in his eye. I see him mocking her obvious reluctance. When I was reading it, I could see no way that he could miss that he was seeing an absolute rejection of everything he'd just been talking about. From what you're saying, you seem to be reading his tone completely differently. And when I go back and try, I'll admit that I think I can see how someone could find something of a different tone. This still doesn't justify Marty to me, and I still see his actions and manner (among other things) as completely inappropriate, but I can see where one might interpret him as not reading Thelma's body language in the way that I was.

I don't like that "instinct" swipe at Thelma either.

It wasn't a swipe at Thelma. I said

The way it's portrayed, her actions seem

I was making a statement about what I perceived the intent of the scene to be. Very admittedly, I could be wrong. And if so, my apologies to RH.

And yeah, I do think it's wrong for someone to take advantage of another person's bad situation. Yes, the people in the situation are to be held responsible for the choices that got them there. But I think those who would take advantage of the situation are also doing something wrong for which they should be held responsible

[RHJunior]

Okay, time to FCYA.

1)The "teen model contest" concealed, or obscured, the fees they were leveling. Even the sleazier ones, btw, put their fees <I>up front.</i> They don't foot the bill for a week then drop the boom on the contestants.

2)They just turned a teenager over to a porno photographer without so much as a word of warning, or, more importantly, a doublecheck on her age.

3)"It's purely consensual!"---- except for the fact that Marty's holding financial ruin over her head.... and taking advantage of the fact that she's a young girl, hundreds of miles from home, in a bad bind, and (he thinks) easily intimidated into something regrettable. That's not consensual, that's coercive.

And "Consensual" is not the final arbiter of morality, either.

Whether it's currently culturally popular or not, the weight of responsibility is still on the man. Men are physically larger, stronger, and more aggressive... it is the man's duty to restrain himself and not demand things of a woman that are out of moral and ethical bounds. Whether or not the girl relents is irrelevent--- <I>he should have never put her in a position where she had to decide whether or not to relent in the first place.</i>

What makes "zoomers" possible is the foolish belief that something being "consensual" absolves the zoomer of all moral responsibility for forcing the issue.