Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2002 7:53 am
I stole these from other posts, it will go a long way to explaining your question away.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> posted by Ralph:
"WHY would Beebee date this big jerk ?"
I think I can answer that.
See, I live in West Virginia, and lived for quite some time in a county that's a lot like Malarkey County in many ways. Rough, rural, low income, often hardscrabble-- not so much for lack of options as for lack of incentive. An awfully high percentage of the population is welfare,and has been that way for so long that noone thinks anything of it. Ablebodied men and women line up every month for their welfare and food stamps and WIC and Social Security and Disability and "crazy checks"... and when they're not doing that, there are those among the lot earning the title "shiftless no-account." Some are out going from church to church in the area, shaking them down for "charity"... There are others growing a little green "pot o' gold" back in the hills... or raising roosters for cockfighting... or just flat out stealing and fencing...stop me if you think I'm exaggerating...
Well, let's just say that the percentage of no-accounts to decent is almighty high.<P>Now Malarkey County is nowhere near that bad. But wherever you go I figure there's always some part of the countryside where no-accounts hold sway, where the pickin's are slim, where people are poor not because they're "oppressed" or because of hardships out of their control but because they're having to support some lazy bum or are lazy bums themselves-- and where girls get it ground into their heads from watching their mothers that you'd better take whatever man you can get, because there ain't anything better out there.... and if he has a nice truck, at least that means he's SOME sort of breadwinner...<P>Broken down car or car up on blocks = no money = no job = shiftless bum who will sit around your trailer drinking beer.<P>Nice truck = lots of money = job or rich family = shiftless bum who will sit around drinking beer... but will do it in a *HOUSE.* With a full refrigerator. And working plumbing, hopefully.<P>Of course, to look at the level of divorce going on in that aforementioned RL county-- and the extramarital affairs, and the fights, and the husbands and wives getting thrown out on their keesters-- the formula rarely works out as planned, if ever... but ironically every tragedy only makes them more desperately determined to cling to whatever sorry loser they've found....<P>It takes a lot of guts and a lot of hope to break out of that sort of thinking. Most girls and women from "no-account counties" never have that much. With any hope, though, Beebee will get an infusion of gumption from her friends...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>posted by Geo
ok, i'm actually seeing a lot of bitterness and anger in these pages. that bothers me. ludinazrimtal, i understand that you have been hurt very badly, and you're bitter and upset by that. but i have another point of view. you see, i was in an abusive relationship for five years. i don't make a habit of offering that information up in random internent forums, but i want it understood that i know exactly what i'm talking about. you're wrong when you say you have to be a jerk and mistreat women for them to respect and like you. the most powerful thing a man can do for a woman, no matter what the age, is let her know she makes his life better by being a part of it. when someone tells you you're the center of his universe, you want to make him happy. so, you tell him where you're going and what you'll be doing--because he worries so about you. so you stop hanging around the friends who make him uncomfortable--because they just don't understand him. i dumped a 'nice guy' for my abuser. why did i do it? the 'nice guy sat around playing video games and staring at his computer for eight hours a day, couldn't make up his mind if he wanted to be with me or not, and was constantly saying to me, "um, could you cover me for dinner/concert/movies? i'm a little short till payday/i lost my job/i had to pay rent this week." i don't expect a man to wine and dine me, but fiscal stability is a must. so when this smart, funny, sweet, attractive guy came along, wanting nothing more than to be with me, settle down, buy a little house on some land, raise a family and have sunday dinner at his mother's once a month for the rest of his life, i thought it was a gift from the gods. but he was right, i could stand to lose a few pounds--not because he didn't find me attractive, mind you, but just to be healthy. did i really like that job at the gas station--it wasn't safe, and i was on my feet, and he really thinks i'm worth more than they're paying me. that flea chick made him nervous, and well, she can be a little abrasive, i guess...then one day i looked around and the support network i had built was gone, stripped away bit by bit. then the fun really began. not all abusers are big, ugly, visibly nasty boors. sometimes he's a socially conscious, sweet, non smoking farmer's son who calls his mother every week and has a hopeless romantic streak a mile wide. don't judge beebee too harshly. i was a smart, savvy, confident, well-educated woman from a background of respect and honor. i had a father who said to me, "you can be whatever you want to be. you're only limited by what you're willing to work for." beebee is a member of a culture that still in some cases propagates the 'stand by your man' image. malarkey county doesn't appear to have many institutes of higher learning, and there don't appear to be a lot of opportunities for a girl to get somewhere in this world that don't involve marrying a man and raising his family. she's doing well to have a non-traditional job and her own money. i'm sure she thinks, "sure, he cuts up a little rough when he's been drinking, but he'll settle down. boys raise cain when they're young. he just needs a woman's touch to gentle him. i'm not pretty like sasha or smart like janine (insert any two adjectives here; the important thing is not the attributes themselves but that they have qualities she does not perceive herself as having). they'll never have any trouble getting a man to notice them. they just don't understand. they've never been in love. it's not all roses and moonlight and poetry. my mama told me that a relationship means compromise and learning to live with each other. i'm lucky to have gus. he's a good provider and he takes care of me." i was lucky. my abuser found a younger, prettier woman and left me nearly bankrupt and emotionally devastated, but he left. had i blundered into another abuser, i would have fallen into a cycle i might never have escaped. luckily, i found a fellow survivor of an abusive relationship, and he took a year out of his life to help me crawl out of the abyss. we're not together anymore, but we're still friends. one day, he said, "george, i think we're done." "you know steve, i think you're right. friends?" "friends." and we still talk every few weeks. now, i've been blessed to find three wonderful men who respect me and genuinely care about me. they're all smart, funny, attractive, each in his own way, but that's not why i like them. i like them because they're going places. they have a vision of the future, be it school, work, family, whatever. the compatibility of our visions is not the primary issue. that can be worked out as things develop. the important thing is that they're looking forward, and that they all take time to let me know every once in a while that they're glad i'm part of their lives. i do the same. our beloved foxboys don't appear to have a whole lot of direction, there. nothing against them, but will thelma settle for hanging out with tuck and watching him work on his car five years from now? that girl is going places, and she'll leave him behind if he's just standing still. they're stagnant, not going anywhere, not changing. i'm not advocating any one path of job, education, or professional demolitions, but they're getting to a point where they really need to start making decisions about where they want to end up. it's not important to a woman what you dream. it's important that you dream, and that after a certain point in the relationship, you include her in those dreams. women choose men for a lot of reasons. essentially, we choose a man who best fits our idea of what we want for ourselves. abusers are generally cunning and charming. my mother still has a hard time reconciling the man who savagely assaulted her daughter with the smiling, genial fellow how called her 'ma'am' and had a way with the farm dogs. ted bundy was considered 'a good catch'. they know what women see as desirable, and they portray it. even gus: a woman wants a man who takes care of her, who cares enough about her to get really upset over her. i don't think he's exactly thinking it through, but he's projecting what he thinks are desirable traits--nice truck and a job to pay for it. if my ex-husband had told me from the beginning how it was really going to be, i'd still have dumped 'mister nice guy'. i'd just have stayed single. sorry about the length of this minor rant, but i'm seeing a lot of people bringing their personal resentments to this forum, and i think maybe folks are under the impression that a woman in an abusive relationship somehow has this moment where she says to herself, "goodness me, this is an abusive relationship. i should go away. hmmm, let's see, i can choose this nice man who will respect me, or this evil bad abuser who will break my wrist...abuser it is!" that's oversimplification, but there it is. and, frankly, not being an abuser shouldn't be a selling point. it should be expected. when you go buy a car, does the salesman say to you, "look, the windshield has glass in it!"? sadly, women don't expect men to not abuse them and they should. saying to a woman "you should date me because i'm not abusive" is a lot like putting "i can dress myself" on your resume. yes, it's important, yes it's required, but if that's all you're bringing to the table, you may need to re-evaluate some things. i'm sure i've likely upset somebody, because that generally happens, but i see a girl like beebee and my first inclination is to say to her, "girl, honey, you don't know me. you don't know my story. but let me tell you, it will get better. but first, it will be very, very, very bad. hold to your friends and your family as long as you can, because someday those relationships may save your life--from him, or from you."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Take a special look at 02/09/02, 02/05/02 and Callin' the shots threads. There will be more details and analysis to fill you in on what's going on.<P>As for the "And there we have it folks" statement I think it's Ralph putting his words into Nip's mouth.
"WHY would Beebee date this big jerk ?"
I think I can answer that.
See, I live in West Virginia, and lived for quite some time in a county that's a lot like Malarkey County in many ways. Rough, rural, low income, often hardscrabble-- not so much for lack of options as for lack of incentive. An awfully high percentage of the population is welfare,and has been that way for so long that noone thinks anything of it. Ablebodied men and women line up every month for their welfare and food stamps and WIC and Social Security and Disability and "crazy checks"... and when they're not doing that, there are those among the lot earning the title "shiftless no-account." Some are out going from church to church in the area, shaking them down for "charity"... There are others growing a little green "pot o' gold" back in the hills... or raising roosters for cockfighting... or just flat out stealing and fencing...stop me if you think I'm exaggerating...
Well, let's just say that the percentage of no-accounts to decent is almighty high.<P>Now Malarkey County is nowhere near that bad. But wherever you go I figure there's always some part of the countryside where no-accounts hold sway, where the pickin's are slim, where people are poor not because they're "oppressed" or because of hardships out of their control but because they're having to support some lazy bum or are lazy bums themselves-- and where girls get it ground into their heads from watching their mothers that you'd better take whatever man you can get, because there ain't anything better out there.... and if he has a nice truck, at least that means he's SOME sort of breadwinner...<P>Broken down car or car up on blocks = no money = no job = shiftless bum who will sit around your trailer drinking beer.<P>Nice truck = lots of money = job or rich family = shiftless bum who will sit around drinking beer... but will do it in a *HOUSE.* With a full refrigerator. And working plumbing, hopefully.<P>Of course, to look at the level of divorce going on in that aforementioned RL county-- and the extramarital affairs, and the fights, and the husbands and wives getting thrown out on their keesters-- the formula rarely works out as planned, if ever... but ironically every tragedy only makes them more desperately determined to cling to whatever sorry loser they've found....<P>It takes a lot of guts and a lot of hope to break out of that sort of thinking. Most girls and women from "no-account counties" never have that much. With any hope, though, Beebee will get an infusion of gumption from her friends...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>posted by Geo
ok, i'm actually seeing a lot of bitterness and anger in these pages. that bothers me. ludinazrimtal, i understand that you have been hurt very badly, and you're bitter and upset by that. but i have another point of view. you see, i was in an abusive relationship for five years. i don't make a habit of offering that information up in random internent forums, but i want it understood that i know exactly what i'm talking about. you're wrong when you say you have to be a jerk and mistreat women for them to respect and like you. the most powerful thing a man can do for a woman, no matter what the age, is let her know she makes his life better by being a part of it. when someone tells you you're the center of his universe, you want to make him happy. so, you tell him where you're going and what you'll be doing--because he worries so about you. so you stop hanging around the friends who make him uncomfortable--because they just don't understand him. i dumped a 'nice guy' for my abuser. why did i do it? the 'nice guy sat around playing video games and staring at his computer for eight hours a day, couldn't make up his mind if he wanted to be with me or not, and was constantly saying to me, "um, could you cover me for dinner/concert/movies? i'm a little short till payday/i lost my job/i had to pay rent this week." i don't expect a man to wine and dine me, but fiscal stability is a must. so when this smart, funny, sweet, attractive guy came along, wanting nothing more than to be with me, settle down, buy a little house on some land, raise a family and have sunday dinner at his mother's once a month for the rest of his life, i thought it was a gift from the gods. but he was right, i could stand to lose a few pounds--not because he didn't find me attractive, mind you, but just to be healthy. did i really like that job at the gas station--it wasn't safe, and i was on my feet, and he really thinks i'm worth more than they're paying me. that flea chick made him nervous, and well, she can be a little abrasive, i guess...then one day i looked around and the support network i had built was gone, stripped away bit by bit. then the fun really began. not all abusers are big, ugly, visibly nasty boors. sometimes he's a socially conscious, sweet, non smoking farmer's son who calls his mother every week and has a hopeless romantic streak a mile wide. don't judge beebee too harshly. i was a smart, savvy, confident, well-educated woman from a background of respect and honor. i had a father who said to me, "you can be whatever you want to be. you're only limited by what you're willing to work for." beebee is a member of a culture that still in some cases propagates the 'stand by your man' image. malarkey county doesn't appear to have many institutes of higher learning, and there don't appear to be a lot of opportunities for a girl to get somewhere in this world that don't involve marrying a man and raising his family. she's doing well to have a non-traditional job and her own money. i'm sure she thinks, "sure, he cuts up a little rough when he's been drinking, but he'll settle down. boys raise cain when they're young. he just needs a woman's touch to gentle him. i'm not pretty like sasha or smart like janine (insert any two adjectives here; the important thing is not the attributes themselves but that they have qualities she does not perceive herself as having). they'll never have any trouble getting a man to notice them. they just don't understand. they've never been in love. it's not all roses and moonlight and poetry. my mama told me that a relationship means compromise and learning to live with each other. i'm lucky to have gus. he's a good provider and he takes care of me." i was lucky. my abuser found a younger, prettier woman and left me nearly bankrupt and emotionally devastated, but he left. had i blundered into another abuser, i would have fallen into a cycle i might never have escaped. luckily, i found a fellow survivor of an abusive relationship, and he took a year out of his life to help me crawl out of the abyss. we're not together anymore, but we're still friends. one day, he said, "george, i think we're done." "you know steve, i think you're right. friends?" "friends." and we still talk every few weeks. now, i've been blessed to find three wonderful men who respect me and genuinely care about me. they're all smart, funny, attractive, each in his own way, but that's not why i like them. i like them because they're going places. they have a vision of the future, be it school, work, family, whatever. the compatibility of our visions is not the primary issue. that can be worked out as things develop. the important thing is that they're looking forward, and that they all take time to let me know every once in a while that they're glad i'm part of their lives. i do the same. our beloved foxboys don't appear to have a whole lot of direction, there. nothing against them, but will thelma settle for hanging out with tuck and watching him work on his car five years from now? that girl is going places, and she'll leave him behind if he's just standing still. they're stagnant, not going anywhere, not changing. i'm not advocating any one path of job, education, or professional demolitions, but they're getting to a point where they really need to start making decisions about where they want to end up. it's not important to a woman what you dream. it's important that you dream, and that after a certain point in the relationship, you include her in those dreams. women choose men for a lot of reasons. essentially, we choose a man who best fits our idea of what we want for ourselves. abusers are generally cunning and charming. my mother still has a hard time reconciling the man who savagely assaulted her daughter with the smiling, genial fellow how called her 'ma'am' and had a way with the farm dogs. ted bundy was considered 'a good catch'. they know what women see as desirable, and they portray it. even gus: a woman wants a man who takes care of her, who cares enough about her to get really upset over her. i don't think he's exactly thinking it through, but he's projecting what he thinks are desirable traits--nice truck and a job to pay for it. if my ex-husband had told me from the beginning how it was really going to be, i'd still have dumped 'mister nice guy'. i'd just have stayed single. sorry about the length of this minor rant, but i'm seeing a lot of people bringing their personal resentments to this forum, and i think maybe folks are under the impression that a woman in an abusive relationship somehow has this moment where she says to herself, "goodness me, this is an abusive relationship. i should go away. hmmm, let's see, i can choose this nice man who will respect me, or this evil bad abuser who will break my wrist...abuser it is!" that's oversimplification, but there it is. and, frankly, not being an abuser shouldn't be a selling point. it should be expected. when you go buy a car, does the salesman say to you, "look, the windshield has glass in it!"? sadly, women don't expect men to not abuse them and they should. saying to a woman "you should date me because i'm not abusive" is a lot like putting "i can dress myself" on your resume. yes, it's important, yes it's required, but if that's all you're bringing to the table, you may need to re-evaluate some things. i'm sure i've likely upset somebody, because that generally happens, but i see a girl like beebee and my first inclination is to say to her, "girl, honey, you don't know me. you don't know my story. but let me tell you, it will get better. but first, it will be very, very, very bad. hold to your friends and your family as long as you can, because someday those relationships may save your life--from him, or from you."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Take a special look at 02/09/02, 02/05/02 and Callin' the shots threads. There will be more details and analysis to fill you in on what's going on.<P>As for the "And there we have it folks" statement I think it's Ralph putting his words into Nip's mouth.
