I want out.

Reinder · Post by **Reinder** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 3:57 am

On average, the zines broke even. My internet-related bills, on the other hand, are my second-biggest expense after rent. And at least with the zines, I managed to extract payment from some of my readers <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">I don't seriously plan to leave webcomics behind, though - I was merely throwing a tantrum. However, I will alter some of my procedures to make getting back to print easier - in fact, I've already done so. The master images for the next ROCR story are on my hard drive in resolutions that will satisfy any printer I could offer it to (600 DPI at original size), and I will go back to doing more of the work by hand even if it takes more time in the short run.I appreciate mcvos' offer of help but there isn't a lot that I could delegate - most of the extra hassle comes from one-time-only projects like the Circle of Terror, and from the way the Keen updater works in theory <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/frown.gif">------------------
Reinder Dijkhuis
<A HREF="http://www.rocr.net/" TARGET=_blank>Rogues of Clwyd-Rhan</A>, Humorous fantasy strip, updated Mon-Fri, and really rather good. <A HREF="http://www.rocr.net/d/20000701.html" TARGET=_blank>Read it from the first strip!</A><A HREF="http://whio.keenspace.com/" TARGET=_blank>White House in Orbit</A>

Reinder · Post by **Reinder** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 4:31 am

Five times in the past days, I've had problems with the site of the kind that Jacob Nielsen claims destroy confidence in web sites, and the third crisis that occured today was a problem that I thought I had fixed, only to find that some other factor had un-fixed it.I'm fed up. I want to get back to print comics and leave the world of webcomics and computers in general behind. Of course, I had grown to hate the zine-making process when I started online publication. Blegh.------------------
Reinder Dijkhuis
<A HREF="http://www.rocr.net/" TARGET=_blank>Rogues of Clwyd-Rhan</A>, Humorous fantasy strip, updated Mon-Fri, and really rather good. <A HREF="http://www.rocr.net/d/20000701.html" TARGET=_blank>Read it from the first strip!</A><A HREF="http://whio.keenspace.com/" TARGET=_blank>White House in Orbit</A>

Geir · Post by **Geir** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 10:23 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by reinder:
..the Keen updater works in theory <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/frown.g ... OTE>But, hey... They got the new installment of <A HREF="http://whio.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>WHITE HOUSE IN ORBIT</A>up ok!!

(Now - what are you waiting for everybody --- get over to <A HREF="http://whio.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>WHIO</A> and gorge yourselves on Reinder's new offering NOW! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif"> )------------------
Geir
<A HREF="http://whio.keenspace.com/" TARGET=_blank>whio.keenspace.com</A> White House in Orbit: Flapper culture AD 3030

Mcvos · Post by **Mcvos** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 11:42 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by reinder:
Five times in the past days, I've had problems with the site of the kind that Jacob Nielsen claims destroy confidence in web sites, and the third crisis that occured today was a problem that I thought I had fixed, only to find that some other factor had un-fixed it.I'm fed up. I want to get back to print comics and leave the world of webcomics and computers in general behind. Of course, I had grown to hate the zine-making process when I started online publication. Blegh.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You're not going to leave us, are you? Isn't there someone else who can handle the web stuff for you, so you only have to worry about the actual comics?Or maybe you're sufficiently well known by now to be published by a professional paper publisher?
------------------
mcv <><

Awake98 · Post by **Awake98** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 11:52 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by somebody vaguely resembling the drawing of a man with a nose that was far too big:
 But, hey... They got the new installment of <A HREF="http://whio.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>WHITE HOUSE IN ORBIT</A>up ok!!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ha, that's what we were all waiting for! (Well, that and the Rogues back in print

)I wonder how many of us are still old fashioned enough to look forward to having a nice printed version of the stuff we've been reading online for a long time now?Any takers? d

Geir · Post by **Geir** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:08 pm

Bah. How many people bought those zines? And how many visits ROCR regularily? How big a bill was you left with after printing those zines and half the readers somehow managed to wheedle out of paying the pittance you were charging? And how may months were those zines delayed vs. how many hours the web publication? It's all rather relative... <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif">Keep up the good work, Reinder. We'll all be extremely disappointed if we have to wait a year between each issue of the Rogues again! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">

Reinder · Post by **Reinder** » Thu Nov 01, 2001 10:13 am

I hope there'll be some takers, at least. I spent much of Wednesday afternoon listing the stories added to the ROCR canon since July 2000, and I found that I could bring the series up to number 10 (which would be "The Corbie line" starting in December). I've also drawn thumbnails for potential covers. The problem really is that the series has gone through several format changes, and in some strips I've varied the size. Also, many were drawn in minimalist fashion, with large blocks of black being filled in on the computer. These will have to be finished up properly for print - I might end up inviting a number of people to the studio I'm joining in December for an afternoon of filling in black areas, with beer.But I think I could start with finishing the Dutch-language lettering for "Gudrun", and printing that up as ROCR book 6. The other books would then be... (drum roll)5: The Faerie and the Earth-Pig (56 pages, A5)7. A Witch's life (68 pages, A5, comprising "The Weakest Lunkhead", "Clerical Underground", "Babble Banter Brouhaha" and "Curse of the Corbies pt.1")8. Dolphins and Dragons (90 pages, A5, provided I can use the crossover pages from Amber, Brandon and Pam)9. Sauna Opera (20 pages, A4). A short, cheap book including the strip I'll run after the Guest Fortnight.10 The Corbie Line (100+ pages, oblong, special format that I won't give away any details on yet).
Or maybe I should aim for a regular, US-comic-sized magazine?------------------
Reinder Dijkhuis
<A HREF="http://www.rocr.net/" TARGET=_blank>Rogues of Clwyd-Rhan</A>, Humorous fantasy strip, updated Mon-Fri, and really rather good. <A HREF="http://www.rocr.net/d/20000701.html" TARGET=_blank>Read it from the first strip!</A><A HREF="http://whio.keenspace.com/" TARGET=_blank>White House in Orbit</A>

Awake98 · Post by **Awake98** » Thu Nov 01, 2001 11:56 am

Sounds like a list of stuff no good reader could do without

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by reinder:
Or maybe I should aim for a regular, US-comic-sized magazine?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Nah, anything that suits the strip will do - in this case content should dictate the format, not the other way around. Then again, that may be just my view

d

Reinder · Post by **Reinder** » Fri Nov 02, 2001 1:45 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by reinder:
Five times in the past days, I've had
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Six. Smilodon's guest strip will be up as soon as that updater has slogged through the 1174 other comics it is painstakingly reviewing.------------------
Reinder Dijkhuis
<A HREF="http://www.rocr.net/" TARGET=_blank>Rogues of Clwyd-Rhan</A>, Humorous fantasy strip, updated Mon-Fri, and really rather good. <A HREF="http://www.rocr.net/d/20000701.html" TARGET=_blank>Read it from the first strip!</A><A HREF="http://whio.keenspace.com/" TARGET=_blank>White House in Orbit</A>

Reinder · Post by **Reinder** » Sat Nov 03, 2001 1:59 am

I've started filling in blacks on the old strips. I will want to redraw some stuff, most notably in "The Faerie and the Earth-Pig", but that's no biggy.
The main problem, though is with the formats. The way I'be outline the project above, there will be 4 different formats for the six books, and some of the books will be really thick so they'll require paperback covering. This could cost me.Also, should I shoot for Dutch, English, or both? This is pretty much determined by the factors of time and money - if I can sell more at home than abroad, I will have to prioritise the Dutch version - and I'll have no time for the English version at all! Or vice versa.------------------
Reinder Dijkhuis
<A HREF="http://www.rocr.net/" TARGET=_blank>Rogues of Clwyd-Rhan</A>, Humorous fantasy strip, updated Mon-Fri, and really rather good. <A HREF="http://www.rocr.net/d/20000701.html" TARGET=_blank>Read it from the first strip!</A><A HREF="http://whio.keenspace.com/" TARGET=_blank>White House in Orbit</A>

Geir · Post by **Geir** » Sat Nov 03, 2001 3:00 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by reinder:
Also, should I shoot for Dutch, English, or both.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Won't English sell as well as Dutch even in your home market?

I can make my way through a Dutch text well enough to get the meaning, but unless it's in English I know I'll be missing most of the wordplays and literal jokes... <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/frown.gif">

Capn · Post by **Capn** » Sat Nov 03, 2001 4:06 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by reinder:
- I might end up inviting a number of people to the studio I'm joining in December for an afternoon of filling in black areas, with beer.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Remind me to see if we can't get a refrigerator for the studio... <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">------------------
<A HREF="http://capn.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>CAP'N</A>- full color nonsense adventure - it's weirdy weird!

Reinder · Post by **Reinder** » Sun Nov 04, 2001 1:55 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Geir:
 Won't English sell as well as Dutch even in your home market?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm afraid not. Besides, a Dutch version might raise more interest in the Dutch press.------------------
Reinder Dijkhuis
<A HREF="http://www.rocr.net/" TARGET=_blank>Rogues of Clwyd-Rhan</A>, Humorous fantasy strip, updated Mon-Fri, and really rather good. <A HREF="http://www.rocr.net/d/20000701.html" TARGET=_blank>Read it from the first strip!</A><A HREF="http://whio.keenspace.com/" TARGET=_blank>White House in Orbit</A>

Reinder · Post by **Reinder** » Sun Nov 04, 2001 7:20 am

I'm already hard at work filling in those missing black areas, and I've already done most of the work on "Curse of the Corbies". Tedious as it is, I find it very satisfying, as if the pages weren't properly finished before and I'm completing a job I should have done much earlier.I now think "Corbies" should be a separate volume (# 8) because it's long enough and won't be too hard to finish. However, there are two books I could do before putting out "Corbies". One of them is the "Bootleg" book I promised in an earlier thread, which I could theoretically wind up in a week. It would be a Dutch-language collection of short stories including "Brewery" and "Night of the Dragon" as well as two stories that you definitely won't see online, plus assorted artwork. What I plan to do with that is make it low-effort, high-yield: cobble it together with little design effort, charge a high price and use the earnings for the later projects.
The other one is the forthcoming story "Sauna Opera" which is on my hard-drive in high-res scans, lettered in English. It's exactly 20 pages and I could add a cover and put it out as Book #10 in a matter of weeks - possibly before the online run is over. But maybe I should leave the choice of which language should get priority to the first person to subscribe and send me money for the books <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">In any case, to show how serious I am about returning to print publishing, I've expanded the bookstore with a section on <A HREF="http://www.rocr.net/bookstore/rocr.html" TARGET=_blank>ROCR in print</A> where people can see the covers of the existing volumes, and read excerpts (If it isn't up yet, just wait. The pages have to run through the auto-updater).Let me know! This could be a big project but I'm already more enthousiastic about it than the T-Shirt or the CD-ROM project, both of which would keep me dependent on my computer for business (Computer-dependency has disastrous consequences. Looks what happens at <A HREF="http://www.elflife.com/" TARGET=_blank>Elf Life</A> right now. Both Carson and his room mate/business partner/editor Kaichi have disappeared off the face of the earth because their monitor broke. I don't want that). This could get me back on the non-virtual circuit of comics shops, conventions and publicity in print magazines. And it could actually make a profit if I do it properly.------------------
Reinder Dijkhuis
<A HREF="http://www.rocr.net/" TARGET=_blank>Rogues of Clwyd-Rhan</A>, Humorous fantasy strip, updated Mon-Fri, and really rather good. <A HREF="http://www.rocr.net/d/20000701.html" TARGET=_blank>Read it from the first strip!</A><A HREF="http://whio.keenspace.com/" TARGET=_blank>White House in Orbit</A>

Smilodon · Post by **Smilodon** » Mon Nov 05, 2001 6:36 am

As for Jacob Nielsen, his theories really only apply to commercial sites, (ie. corperate websites, web stores etc...)
The outages on keen, while annoying are caused by and are, really, an indicator of the success of the enterprise that is keen.
The webcomic artist that succumbs to the anxiety over readership risks falling into the "Josh Lesnick" trap where the artists reactions to his anxiety have a detrimental effect on his readership and in the end cause the loss of sections of that readership.o.k. I got that off my chest. I had to since I've been more and more interested in small press or minicomics as they are called here in the States. I'm planning out an 8 page mini myself right now to get started. This site ( <A HREF="http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/s ... /index.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/s ... dex.htm</A> ) has one of the better links pages as well as interviews with people who have sprung from the small press movement into greater success (like Eddie Campbell who draw FROM HELL and writes and draws his own comic Bacchus).
Anyway good luck Reinder just don't drop your webpage for rocr, it is a great comic (great enough that I would buy it if it was in a comic book store)------------------
Smilodon
<A HREF="http://brainfries.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>http://brainfries.keenspace.com</A>
Smilodon est tres tres fierce!

Reinder · Post by **Reinder** » Mon Nov 05, 2001 7:34 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by smilodon:
As for Jacob Nielsen, his theories really only apply to commercial sites, (ie. corperate websites, web stores etc...)
The outages on keen, while annoying are caused by and are, really, an indicator of the success of the enterprise that is keen.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I don't think so, and never have. People go to a Keen site with a goal in mind, which is to get a fix of entertainment, and the outages cause them to fail to achieving that goal. If they already have some loyalty to the site, they may forgive it and come back, but even then, if they consistently fail to be entertained, they will stop coming back. I would.
I have to take that very seriously. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
The webcomic artist that succumbs to the anxiety over readership risks falling into the "Josh Lesnick" trap where the artists reactions to his anxiety have a detrimental effect on his readership and in the end cause the loss of sections of that readership.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm pretty sure there was and is more to that in his case. Josh' website is much much harder to use than mine, and, well, did he update on time? Did he stick to a plan for long enough? He has abandoned Wendy and Orgymania - I have no intention of abandoning any of my projects.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
Anyway good luck Reinder just don't drop your webpage for rocr, it is a great comic (great enough that I would buy it if it was in a comic book store)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'll repeat that again: I have no intention of dropping the site. I do, however, want to have alternative outlets that have a chance of making a profit and that I can show to people who I meet - like the people who put together my teaching sessions, or just anyone who asks me what I do all day.And I do want ROCR to reach comic shops internationally. Eventually.------------------
Reinder Dijkhuis
<A HREF="http://www.rocr.net/" TARGET=_blank>Rogues of Clwyd-Rhan</A>, Humorous fantasy strip, updated Mon-Fri, and really rather good. <A HREF="http://www.rocr.net/d/20000701.html" TARGET=_blank>Read it from the first strip!</A><A HREF="http://whio.keenspace.com/" TARGET=_blank>White House in Orbit</A>