damonk13 wrote:Yeah, I've known about them for quite a while, Gwalla, but still haven't decided really if I like them or not.
Sometimes I think he's making a decent point, but most times I find he's just restating the obvious.
Then again, what I find obvious after years and years of research and love for the craft, others may not, being new or younger or etc. His stuff does make for good "primer" material, and given the title of the column, I guess that's pretty darned appropriate.
And Gwalla -- you kinda disappeared during the con, man! I never got a chance to seriously sit down and have a huge chat on comics and theory! (or maybe that's why you hid from me?) ^_~
damonk13 wrote:Well, not having UC or RC on hand right now, and not owning any Sandman (but having read them all), I can say this: while McCloud doesn;t delve in great detail as to SPATIAL transitions, I believe he does mention them in passing.
The panels you mention from Sandman are still clear in my memory, and I feel they work more as temporal, though there is a spatial juxtaposition occuring as well. But the thing about those panels is that they are very much in accordance with a number of myths on Wyrd/Fate/the Sisters (etc.) in that the three are interchangeable and are really one in the same, while being simultaneously distinct, also. Nothing "revolutionary" is being done her panel-wise -- Gaiman just got Kieth (or whomever it was at this early juncture) to beautifully illustrate a myth element related to the Wyrd.
So what we see in those panels really is nothing more than a standard moment-by-moment temporal shift, with the sisters within the panels switching off of one another. Really, I'd argue that those panels follow the McCloud "big 6" panel measurements pretty darn accurately, despite the "Wyrd-ness" of it all.
In the Watchmen, I'm not certain as to which of the panels you feel wouldn't fit in his suggested divisions, unless you meant as to how Moore set it up so that the panels are certainly NOT always chronologically juxtaposed (i.e., there are some past/present/future moments happening). While it's easier, perhaps to illustrate it, this is not something that is particulrly difficult to do in other forms or genres, such as prose or film, for example. Look at "Memento" as an EXCELLENT cinematographic use of skewed chronology to convey a compelling story.
In the end, you have to remember that McCloud only offered up 6 "basic" categories -- an attempted standard of measurements, if you will. It wouldn't be hard to divide those in all sorts of other submeasurements, and to quantify things with greater scrutiny.
But it's cool to see ya thinking about it -- can you think of other instances of when the basic standards of transition measurements don;t seem to apply?
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